Comments on: Best Paladin Builds – DPS Paladin Spec For Patch 3.3

By: Tim Ward

Tim Ward — Wed, 03 Feb 2010 20:17:10 +0000

Actually – 2 t10 and 2 t9 is our best stats currently for bonuses.

By: Tim Ward

Tim Ward — Tue, 02 Feb 2010 16:51:04 +0000

Whereas I Love that going against the norm is a Good way to discover new and better ways to play a class… I cannot see how the drop of what should be almost 1k Str can possibly give you more DPS.
In 25 mans, I put out a steady 6.5k on, lets say OS Zerg. I am not Anywhere near the iLvL that your toon has. I agree that you don’t “Have” to wear plate – i am just saying that the Str pluses on plate tend to be a Lot higher than other types of armor. This is designed to help DK tanks as well as Ret pallys.

I have run the numbers, and I have seen/read most tests that EJ and the likes have put out there. additionally, you don’t need to switch seals if you use the 245 libram – the math proves that command does nothing anymore with the libram and seal. the “cleave” procs too often to worry about the 60 second rule. and if you are encountering trash that takes more than a minute to kill… well – that’s surprising.

Either way – I think the goal in this post is to Experiment, and do not just follow the Masses. Experimenting is the path to Dominance – and I know you guys know about that =)

By: Eiry

Eiry — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 02:27:36 +0000

The engine by default presumes fully raid buffed. It may be you are not while hitting bosses. Also you may have a “patchwerk” style fight selected whereas the fight is more “helter skelter”.

I find the simulated engine and my own dps about 10% different on average. Lag, fight circumstance, etc will reflect this.

By: Eiry

Eiry — Sat, 30 Jan 2010 02:19:57 +0000

I have found this to be completely untrue, but it’s an opinion that goes through many circles. I have had a couple guild leaders tell me to gear my toons differently, but they stop giving me grief when I own the dps charts. Some have even converted their pallies to this way of gearing, realising there’s more to gear than 4 simple stats on every plate piece.

While it is true that STR>AGI pound-for-pound, agi gear offers benefits that str gear does not. AP for example. You cannot gear a pally in agi gear alone of course, because that will detriment your toon. But some really boosts the dps. When you gear in AGI gear, you aren’t stacking AGI, but rather AP & Crit primarily. While one stat vs another may not seem like a sensible upgrade, the synergy of different stats works.

When I first walked into ICC10man, I found 11k dps on trash pulls and 4.5-7k on bosses (depending on fight) was quite easy to sustain. However, I did spec with Seal of Command so fights involving multiple mobs and quicker fights meant more dps. And this on a toon that requires little more than facerolling when it comes to combat.

When I encounter random plate-only ret pallys who laugh at my leather gear (and it happens all the time), I simply ask them to meet me at the target dummy and we whack away together. Ultimately I hear “But .. how? That’s impossible.”

My advice is don’t be a stick in the mud. Enjoy the maths. I follow the theorycrafting, and it works. Dare to be different.

By: Nazera

Nazera — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 02:28:30 +0000

Yea, your right about that, I didn’t think about it in that way. Just wanted to make sure I wasn’t failing in some way lol. Thanks for the response!

By: Aloix

Aloix — Fri, 29 Jan 2010 01:07:09 +0000

(I’ve tried replying previously but it didn’t go through perhaps because I had links in my reply?)

The talent spec is incorrect, Retadins (should!) not be speccing into DiSac post 3.3. The current recommended spec per EJ is the 11/5/55 Aura Mastery spec:.
It’s in the 3.3 Retribution thread in the EJ Paladin class forum. There are some other options explained in the EJ thread as well.

The FCFS priority depends on gear/setbonuses
2t9 Judgement > HoW > CS > DS > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath.
2t9 + 2t10 Judgement > DS > HoW > CS > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath
4t10 Judgement > DS > CS > HoW > Consecrate > Exorcism > Holy Wrath

A couple other gear notes – 4pc t9 bonus is not worth it*. Get offset pieces. 2 pc t10 is great, get it ASAP. DO NOT get the EoF libram until you are done purchasing all other gear. The other gear is more important.

I highly recommend the clcret mod to help with FCFS priority/rotation. Get it at curse.
It doesn’t ‘play the game for you’. It does help you keep things tight.

*I just checked the gear link. I am not sure whether even with the higher ilevel pieces it would be worthwhile to keep a 4pc t9 at this point, or to start breaking it up. I have not heard anything remarkable about 4t9.

Regarding STR vs AGI. Yes, generally speaking STR > AGI.. However ret paladins have a high AGI to crit coefficient. Nonetheless, Using myself as an example I have over 2100 STR and my gear is pretty much just Emblem gear/crafted epics, and I choose gear according to RAWR.

Hope this helps some!

By: Lawbringer

Lawbringer — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:52:26 +0000

The engine always puts interrupts pretty high on the list. It’s not that HoJ is a stun as much as it is an interrupt. Which shows you that the engine is not just a DPS slave, but also takes into consideration other things that make fights go smoother as well.

By: Leeroi

Leeroi — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 17:35:16 +0000

@ Nazera – check your assumptions. Simulationcraft has a section that lists all the buffs it is assuming you have (which you probably don’t unless you have a perfectly balanced group). In some cases it can also be important how long the fight is assumed to last – I’m not sure this makes a difference for Pallies, but for a mage who can run out of mana, the time IS a big factor. Also, it is hard, even using “Helter Skelter”, to simulated how much running around you do and when you are not in range of someone to hit, how much the tank is moving the boss (i.e. if the boss moves out of your consecrate, the DPS drops. If the tank pulls 5 adds into your consecrate your DPS goes way up.), how many extra’s there are around you (ex: for Divine Storm), etc. Simulationcraft is good for comparing gear changes, etc, because it uses the exact same assumptions with each change you make, but there is no way it is going to reasonably reflect what you do in a given fight. Ever drop a consecrate and Holy Wrath only to have a mage/hunter/warlock AoE everything to death before your consecrate gets a tick off?

I suspect if you watch carefully, you will see your DPS change significantly between different boss fights even though you are fighting the same way. This is doubly true if you do what you are really *supposed* to be doing, which sometimes involves helping others rather than cranking out DPS (i.e. stunning, repenting, kiting, and the like).

By: Banor

Banor — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 11:08:08 +0000

I’m curious as to why Hammer of Judgement is so high in a dps priority list as its just a stun with no added benifit to dps and most boss encounters it would be a trivial thing anyway because boss mobs are immune to stuns…

By: Nazera- Dalaran Server

Nazera- Dalaran Server — Thu, 28 Jan 2010 04:14:01 +0000

Hey, i tried the simulationcraft engine and its saying that with my gear i can pull 5.5k dps, yet on bosses 3.5k is average and 4k is the highest. How is the engine getting these numbers, or am i doing something wrong? Im Nazera on Dalaran realm, so any help would be great..