Twinking Dies
Posted on April 13th, 2009 by Lawbringer under General Tips
Blizz takes serious steps to end Twinking
And I can’t tell just yet how it really makes me feel. However, what is surprising is that it took this long. Blizz tends to live by the nerf stick, and that twinking existed for all this time is odd to say the least.
I read some of the QQ’ing on the Blizz forums. The forums make my face hurt. Honestly I would rather have skin grafts than search those, much less read an entire thread. Forums in general, and WoW forums in specific are the best place I can think of in the whole world to go to get dumber. Not just a little dumber, dumber by a mile.
There may not be a place in the whole net where you can get more bad information from more idiots, with almost unreadable grammar than that black hole of endless stupidity. Blue posts are worthless, nobody can read properly, but they still will argue incessantly while having no clue. Now my face is hurting again.
So amidst the usual “dumb” was an even higher level of dumb I didn’t know existed. In that way my horizons were broadened, and my expectations of the human race dropped even lower. Someone(s) were trying to make the point that twinking was a lot of ‘work’ and that removing the things twinks rely on to be OP was taking away from this ‘hard working’ class of player. I simply cannot roll my eyes far enough back to make them feel better.
I’ve made a lot of gold off of twinks in the last two years. Probably along the lines of 250 gold a week or so. So there is a degree to which this change affects me quite directly. So I’ll have to find a replacement source for that income.
I built a semi-twink myself, but out of self-defense. In this way I had always known that twinks were an abberration in the WoW universe. In order to even have a chance in a low level BG you almost have to twink. Otherwise endure the honor farming, /spit – ing, /y BUR!!!! (that’s LOL from ally seen by horde btw) crap from a bunch of juvenile nitwits.
Honestly, a toon with twice as much life because they are wearing enchants tuned for level 70’s? And before anyone says that’s what happens in arenas at 80 I beg to differ. I’ve never seen a guy in any level of PvP gear have 80k+ life, so don’t give me that line of bull.
So Blizz finally made things right. All enchants now have levels. You can still enchant the level 18 required weapon with some BC thing, but the enchant won’t activate until you hit level 50, for instance. BC leg armors are gone as well. No more 30 stam, 10 agi on those forest leather pants. No more uber head stam enhancement, no more mongoose (higher brakets), no more any of that junk.
So you will just have to adjust. This also means Libram of Resilience has zero value. If it’s not WotLK it’s probably not going to make you a profit any more, which isn’t bad, but you need to keep it in mind as we move forward.
If you have a twink, it means most of your enchants are going to break in a few days. You won’t be able to stand there and one shot un-twinked toons and almost not be hit by them at the same time – and good riddance to you sir. Attempting to twink from now on will not produce anything like the same results.
Getting rid of twinks is like finally telling some level 40’s that they can’t go into WSG any more with the 19’s. Why it took this long is simply flabbergasting. Twice as much life, twice as much damage, it was silly.
But what everyone really needs to keep in mind is that one more potential profit center is about to go ‘poof.’ The good news is that all those nifty blue items will probably be affordable enough to just use for a few levels for your alts. With twinks disappearing, the prices for twink items will naturally fall back to earth.
Sure, people will still try to do it, and it will still work to some degree, and that’s just fine. But the really bad parts are going down the drain where they should have gone ages ago. I don’t have a problem with highly skilled, well-geared players, but 19 twinks were just as out of place as level 80’s wearing level 130 enchants on 6 bits of gear. It’s laughable when you put it in perspective yes?
Just remember you were warned. If you have some twink stuff in your AH inventory, blow it out in trade chat now. Adjust your purchasing strategies accordingly, and keep an extra close eye on your item data for a while in AADV to make sure you don’t buy any more of those things for at least 60 days until prices level out. On the bright side – prices for lower level enchanting mats should go up, making the already undisputed king of gold making even better. Again, adjust accordingly.
Being Dominant isn’t about exploiting Blizz mistakes, it’s applying the right force (skill) with the right lever (knowledge) across the right fulcrum (auction house, one of many) to achieve better results per period of time. Not bashing someone half your life and laughing about it. There are a lot of killer little changes to professions we’ll cover tomorrow in one big (perhaps last) post before 3.1, and you won’t want to miss it. Stay tuned and let’s get you educated so that you too can Dominate.















It’s a good change, but people that got the twink gear at the moment probably still have an advantage, just not as big as before.
I had one, and am still very glad to see it go away! Playing level 19 BG’s might be fun again? Wow, what a concept!
Think while commenting on the market conditions due to this change you have also shown your total dislike for twinks. Your view of the markets aside you are very narrow minded in this post and being a veteren twink (brackets 29, 39 and 49) i felt a lil comment due. You will find the majority of players did nto twink to one shot people or fight low level geared players. They go int he brackets to fight other twinks and for me personally to achieve a sense of completion with a char so that there is no more gear searching or upgrading and instead just simple bloody pvp against equals. I won’t turn this into a whole debate on twinks as thats been done to death. Keep an open mind. Oh and I agree with the changes. Levels on enchants makes total sense.
whats gonna happen to the enchants that i put on my BoA gear? its just gonna break right? not make it soulbound to that toon? cause that would suck… a lot.
Ok, I may have been on WoW for a couple of years now, but some of the dopey terminology escapes me. Probably because it means nothing. But my question is this…
what is twinking?
As taken from wowwiki.com:
Twinks are player characters who have gained the best powerful gear for their level with enhancements such as expensive weapon enchants, leg patches and BoE/BoP greens, blues or epics. Twinks are mainly used in PvP fighting and Battlegrounds. Twinks obtain their items through rare drops, drops off of bosses in instances, rewards from quests that are difficult to complete at their level, and from the Auction House. Twink items on the Auction House can be expensive. Twink enchantments can only be performed by high-level characters. Therefore, twinking usually requires significant assistance from high-level alts, friends, and/or guild members.
Well at least finally did something right… but somehow some way wouldnt you think that people are gonna still find a way to twink? I’ve come across people who just no matter what it is… they could be given a level 80, recruit’s harness… and a stick and they can manage to one hit everythng
ye@h but its really hard to make twink t00n and i work hard at making them and omg omg omg!!!!!!!111one1!
/slap
just reading that you had to sit and read that stupidity, makes MY face hurt.
all i have to say is…. your name is moron….
About time. One reason I have never bothered with BGs is because of twinks. Although, I do think they will need to improve the low level PvP gear you can buy, make them scale easily.
There is still a place for each level band of the battlegrounds. If someone wants to spend days getting the honor, good on them.
Also good riddance to lvl 1s sitting in Razor Hill killing level 10-12s in duals! I could never understand that!
I will miss twinking a lot. It was fun and regular twink games were a great place to meet new friends.
I never really saw the point of players who were leveling through levels 19-39 complaining about twinking…it takes only a few weeks (at most) of casual play to burn through those levels. Most people speed through those levels towards 80.
In a way, twinking is the most fair WoW will ever be. Every player cannot get a 2400 ranked arena team nor can they raid 5 nights per week. Most will never be on fair footing at 80…not even close. But anyone who is willing to put in the time and gold can be a twink and face others with equal gear…sort of the way old “vanilla” WoW was when Molten Core was a place where a few elite players in Korea went while you were battling at Southshore/Tarren Mill.
R.I.P. Twinks.
I’m so glad to see this change finally made. True, I twinked my toons to some extent but only for faster leveling purposes. I remember trying to take untwinked toons into any low level bracket and I basically just sat in the graveyard the whole time. There is only so much “hard work” that goes into say a 19 or 29 bracket twink because once it’s done, it’s done and you go and slaughter everyone in the bgs after that and /lol their corpses. Good to know I can start clearing out my old twinking crap from my bank and make more room for my weapon collection! Now there’s a good hobby!
Bads will always be bads and complain when they aren’t as good as someone who spent more time/is more skilled than them. Noobs QQ and blizz delivers, thats surprising. I know people who have multiple twinks 3-5 and honestly I don’t understand that. I have made a lvl 19 twink and it was fun for a while, but not captivating. Truthfully I see twinks as people who don’t want to spend the time to be effective at max level, have tried the above and aren’t good, or just need to make themselves feel good. I know this isn’t true for all twinks but when you have multiple it kind of makes sense. All in all, don’t nerf things people worked for that made them different/better. We’ve seen the generalization of classes and we all know that fucked it up, here’s another example of people who just can’t handle sucking so they HAVE to make the other person worse. Newsflash: You don’t deserve to be as good as everyone around you, sometimes you actually have to work for it.
Okay I can understand the viewpoint of a few people that got smooshed in a lvl 19 wsg by a warrior with 2500 hp or getting smoked by a hunter from across the map, but you also need to take the other sides story into consideration. Most people who have twinks only have them because 1. Their guild has everything on farm and they don’t feel like doing badge runs. 2. All they do is farm gold and have nothing to spend it on, or 3. Have you ever thought that some people happen to find it fun. So what if you don’t like it. Its a game. Don’t get all mad every time you get smoked. Think hey why the heck am i in a WSG at lvl 15 with a few quest greens and a grey sword with no stats? Once you figure out the answer you will realize why you were getting smoked in the first place and maybe decide to go do some questing instead.
I disagree, It might be fun for those who get everything handed to them by there guild who “needs a place to spend all that gold” A monkey could play a twink and beat a non twink, all I hear is “all we want to do is fight each other” bull, you want to kill everything in site and you enjoy it, I am so glad they are going. Now you can get beat by someone with skill….. Now you can play with ppl with a lvl ground. Everyone is close to the same and your right it was fun, but it wont be now when you are getting beat by someone who has skill. To the one who said twinking is fun and you meet more ppl, you cant meet ppl if your not a twink I dont get it. What is twinking the new facebook of WOW…come on! Everyone meets ppl in wow. I will miss my twink, but now a lvl 19 can go fight a lvl 19. It’s a lot more fun to beat someone with your skill.
well i have a semi twink. now they changed the armor and enchants for BGs for lower lvls i cant fully twink my char until lvl 50+
they should have just made separate bg’s for twinks like they originally planned to do. Are all enchants being taken out or is it just the leg armor and weapon enchants?
I actually like the fact that Blizzard has finally decided to fix something that has been a problem since BC. If not for the fun of actually having a challenge in Battlegrounds the people that started the Twink thing made lower level battlegrounds alot less of a challenge. Heres why, have you ever thought about it at one setting of time? Well i took the time to sit and calculate it all up and i came up with one thing. If Twinks were never around and noone ever tried to make them don’t you think that PVP in Battlegrounds would be alot more fun? Well i do i prefer to fight someone with little or no skill with their character. I also prefer not to fight someone with absolutely no skill that has 15% more health does 10-15% more damage and takes 10-15% less damage. What makes it worse is that twinks consist of people that usually brag about being able to kill you in 1-2 shots. Well heck you would brag too if you had 2900-4000 health at lvl 19 and you could do damage as if you were level 40-50. Hey i would be happy if Blizzard understood this was an Exploit that they should have fixed a LONG time ago. Well thats My idea of the Twink thing but you tell me am i right or am i wrong?
Skimmys1 Over and Out!!!!!!
” i prefer to fight someone with no skill”
you obviously are uneducated in the fields of WoW. Some of the best PvPErs i know are twinks. They by far surpass the skill levels of most 80 pvpers and infact it takes much more skill to handle a level 19 character and succeed compared to a level 80. This statement is possibly the most illogical thing ever said on these forums
Amen, Moon.
It takes a hell of alot more skill to PvP at 19 then it does at 80. 80 has the MOST gear imbalance of them all. I will give you the fact that there is some people that like to pick on lvl 10s with 300hp when they are sitting at 1.5k, like that does NOT happen in 80s bg I just love to see 5 80s chasing a 75 across the field to get the KB and feel all powerful, thereare aholes in every group, every battle and every bracket. Most of the 19s are more then willing to help a lowbie get and cap the flag, even to the point of dropping it in the FR and let em pick it up to get the cap. I have NEVER seen THAT in 70 to 80 bracket
If you honestly think that level 19 pvp takes more skill than level 80 pvp… wow, my head hurts. I really hope you’re trolling, but then again I’ve met a ton of people in-game that think this way.
Ya guys some of the best pvpers I know are twinks! Ignore the fact that they are in the 1500s with 200 games played on their 80s!!!
Never heard such drivel in all my life. Twinking is part of the game. Its way worse at lvl 80 going up against full epic out arena geared in BGs when you only have 17k hp going up against 30 k hp. At x9 bgs there is only so much “twink” gear u can get so everyone is pretty much geared the same, except for the noobs. But same goes for 80BGs come in wearing grees or some PVE blues and ROFLSTOMPED by full hateful geared people.
I was always under the impression there was som mitigation thing in BG that leveled out equipment so players could focus on Skills rather than gear…hence a 21 being able to compete a bit with a 29 for instance…I may be out of date
Your out of date
I seriously dont know why they are nerfing it
. In the x9 brackets there is only so many “twink” gear a person can get so everyone is pretty equal, except for the new people. If you wanna talk about gear imbalance go to an 80 BG, going up against 30+k hp people in full hateful epics that 3 shot me
with my 18k pve blues and greens is the same as going into a 19 BG vs some twinks. Because there is SOOOO many different gear selections that its hopeless for a fresh 80 to have a chance
Lawbringer that has got to be the best article I have ever read.
You hit the reason I hate PvP dead on the money and your most eloquent description of the forums was priceless.
I am humbled
Sam
Here’s why…
1. There’s already enough stuff they need to work on: Content, Progression, Story, Balancing, Fixing current content; they don’t need to work on side grade content that a very SMALL % of the population sees. Blizzard still has a budget, wants to turn a profit, and has one of THE most sensitive player bases around, devoting resources to TWINK bgs would be an INCREDIBLE waste of resources. Twinking does not draw subs to the game or help when stuff breaks or we encounter massive LAG that nearly shuts down servers for a MONTH.
2. With this patch (3.1) we will be able to Que for bgs anywhere on the map and pop right back to our previous location. This will encourage lowbies who are looking to level, to also BG. Such a change, which is identical to Warhammer, might also allow people to LEVEL through bgs, since you won’t be ruining your TWINK, since twinking will be dead. So we may see Blizzard change the ability to level in BGS down the road, as 1-80, or more on alts, will be very boring. However, if you’re able to Quest AND get XP through bgs, alts might become a greater possibility for new SUBs or just current players.
3. It was lame. I realize it’s a nice gold dump and it made gold for people who farmed for TWINK items, but it was a semi-broken game mechanic. The only people really Pvping – PRE 80 were twinks, as you’d likely encounter twinks who’d ROLFSTOMP you and you didn’t get XP from bgs, so there was no incentive TO pvp but twinking and backtracking.
4. To put bodies in Wintergrasp, the current 80 bgs, and the NEW bg set to come out after 3.1. As posters noted, people who were bored with current content and wanted to totally dominant bgs would invest their surplus funds and time into twinking. However, if you weren’t twinking for total domination, then why bother? Inevitably, a greater challenge is derived from “twinking” your main and playing against 80s with FULL abilities, rather than using sub-80s during the imbalanced leveling process.
All in all, it’s a positive change, so learn to deal with it. If you don’t like 80 BGs, here’s some tips:
1. Do Wintergrasp. Massive honor every 2.5 hours and gear is available through marks. Gear has little to with success.
2. Do AV. While it takes longer to get Ques to pop, your gear doesn’t matter as much.
3. Do Eye of the storm OR Strand of the Ancients. The objectives here often don’t lend you to much 1v1 combat, so gear is irrelevant.
3. NOW do AB and WSG. The raids are much smaller and you aren’t using Vehicles, but rather DEFENDING objectives through your own skill.
Craft a bunch of the cheap PVP gear if you’re squishy, farm VOA and WG, and start off small. Use the acquired honor to get entry and use surplus badges to buy hateful sets. Given how Blizzard set up WOTLK, there’s no excuse for any player NOT to have respectable PVP gear by now (6 months later).
- No Excuses, Play Like A Champion.
1. Do Wintergrasp. Massive honor every 2.5 hours and gear is available through marks. Gear has little to with success.
Gear ALWAYS matter, especially when horde always has 50 to 70k hp plus 144% + dmg, am always getting a 10 to 15 k crit on me.
2. Do AV. While it takes longer to get Ques to pop, your gear doesn’t matter as much.
Gear always matters, this WHOLE game is about gear.
. Do Eye of the storm OR Strand of the Ancients. The objectives here often don’t lend you to much 1v1 combat, so gear is irrelevant
Once again gear matters if it did not then there would be naked raids.
3. NOW do AB and WSG. The raids are much smaller and you aren’t using Vehicles, but rather DEFENDING objectives through your own skill.
Here I am defending ST with 200 resil and 20k hp and a hateful epicced out with 36k hp and 900 resil comes rolling up and roflstomps me…. no amount of skill, execept running away, will save me. Once again out geared AND out numbered AND camped in the trollbane hall GY, all for 500 honor.
the guy with 36k hp and 900 resil is prolly better than you anyway because he actually went and invested the time you wouldnt/couldnt to get the gear. dont complain when you dont have gear if you dont have the skill to get it yourself.
honestly at 80 gear doesnt matter that much till you get in arenas. ill admit that i by far out gear people having all best or second best in slot PvE gear but im still able to down people in full hateful sets without rlly trying because i know how to play my class. if gear rlly matters as much as you people think it does i should be getting thrashed with my 20k health and 0 resilience
Twinking is: learning the game.
Rather than nerf twinks, Blizz should’ve created a Battleground Skirmish bracket, much like the Arenas, that a toon can play…say… up to 20 or 30 games, then graduate to the full-on PVP twinked-or-not bracket. This allows everyone time to absorb the learning curve, but yet allows you to invest time in your level 19, 29, 39 if you want to.
I started BGs about a year after I started WoW, got totally destroyed in WSG & AB, but learned what it took to win. I got my appropriate gear from dungeon runs, enchanted the items i could, got my potions and food lined up, and… guess what?!? IT WAS A BLAST! No longer were the enemies making puddles out of me. And these are all details you need to know for later BGs, Arenas, & even Raids.
The whiners who claim twinking isn’t fair are merely that… whiners, those that don’t understand that nothing worthwhile is easy. It IS a fair playground. You ARE able to get every single gear item, enchant, potion that any twink can get if you just have a high enough interest in the intricate PVP game. Otherwise, just level and get your toon to 80 and try some pvp there. I think you will have wished you learned about the highly-geared/highly-enchanted/highly-jeweled pvp opponent a little earlier.
I think Blizzard is making a drastic move rather than an appropriate one.
everyone is reacting to the end of twinking in very extreme ways, i hear suggestyions that there will be no twinking from now on…. Ofc there will be . It may only be 20 games before your out of the bracket but it still alows you to develop particular skills that like said will be useful later on and 19 isnt the only bracket. 29, 39,49,59,69 are all twinking brackets now. 69 obv a less obv choice for twinking but its still a possibility to twink yourself up and roflstomp people at that level.
Truely dedicated pvprs will still be able to take advantage of these end of bracket levels if they plan ahead. The BOA gear ensures that it will not be wasted having one twink……
Twinking Dies—Long live Twinking.
Surely this is a Blog about earning a few G.
I think there is a money making opportunity being missed here!
Instead of the debate about the good or bad points about Blizz ‘Nerfing’ Twinks should we not think about how to profit from this?
How about working out what would be the now best in slot enchants across the kit for each class of Twink now they can’t use their old ones?
Possibly getting them made onto Vellum and offering a ‘complete’ re-enchant to the new BiS
Trade spam goes thus.. ‘Are you a (insert class here) Twink? Been nerfed by Blizz:( I have the solution. All the best possible ‘chants in one easy package for only XX gold!
3.1 Tomorow!
http://www.wowinsider.com
This is why I quit WoW. This game is a lifestealing time sink.
LMAO, I am getting ready to do the same… especially if the nerfs suck
oh, no how are they going to find someone to replace you….
they cant……. I am unique
The only reason to be in a level 19 bg was to play twink. If you didn’t figure that out after two attempts, and either continue leveling, or make one yourself you were an idiot. Why they would intentionally remove an aspect of the game that brought so much enjoyment from a little hard work is a reflection of their own neglect to accept the fact that some of us adapt the game to better suit our personal enjoyment.
It took work to get engineering up to goggle range, making sure you kept your level’s under the threshold while you obtain the gear. Spent countless time and gold tweaking things just right, then learning the playing curve to be a successful twink.
Blizz fails miserably because too many sniveling little sissy’s cry because they can’t play bg’s at 19 while they’re in the process of leveling to 80.
Typical.
Twinking isn’t dead. This just will level the playing field for twinks. No more 4k HP at 39. Skill > Gear and twinking lives on.
Sigh.
LOL
Anyone who thinks making a twink for the purpose of killing the nontwinks in bgs has probably never made a twink… ever, and certainly does not understant why people would spend the time and money to gear a twink.
The reason people twink is to combat other twinks the same level without having to worry about the noobs leveling up messing with them. It’s downright boring to kill nontwinks, as auto attacks can generally do the trick. Hell, this even applies to the incredibly scarce nontwinks with skill. They can kill nontwinks their level with auto attacks. Why is it so hard to understand that some people want to pvp constantly at a level other than the maximum and play people that actually have skill? I made a 39 twink because I find that epic mounts half-ruin battlegrounds and some higher level skills take the fun out of playing a class or fighting other classes. Take for example death coil. Everyone hates being death coiled. Pvping as a warlock, i didnt like using it, but was essentially forced to once u get to the high 40s to combat other classes. Nevermind that my twink was a warrior because i got sick of so many twink warlocks that have no respect for tactics and just rush in spamming, and wanted a class that could kill them consistently. Now, the gaps between twinks and normals are dramatically decreased, so maby i will actually have to worry a little about people that i will obliterate should i focus on them. They have no idea how to play their class and will still be little more than meat to the grinder.
Sigh, blizzard doesnt understand their own game.
All I can say is…Thank f***ing god, now i feel i can go back in Bg’s without wanting to pull my hair out or slam my head against my desk
Wait til you get to 80…….. Those self destructive tendencies will be 80 fold
As twinking dies so does Blizzard. They will loose alot of support and ultimatly the twinks will turn their back on Blizzard. I think if anything the players really loose. What blizzard has now told us is basically along the lines of “don’t make your character the best you can by getting the best gear and best enchants, this is unfair to new players”. Well all i have to say to that is GET BETTER. This is utter bullshit that people can QQ enough to actually change one of the most unique aspects of the game.
Dear Gavin, I;m extremely disappointed in your stance on twinks and you are taking the wrong outlook on them. I would say that about 95% (or higher) of twinks do not use exploits to win. We simply use the best gear and enchants. If you really have a problem with people gearing up and making their characters the best they can then just quit now. In no way are leg enchants and certain enchants an exploit. We simply took advantage of what was given to us like all players. As Darwin once said, survival of the fittest. Well if you want to survive the BGs you better start gearing up. Adjust to the means you are going to playing in. I don’t see that many arena teams in non-resilience gear because they know if they dont have a certain resilience rating that they will be crushed. It is the exact same thing with twinking. I’ve heard plenty of QQ about twinks being unfair, but is it really any different at 80? Actually in my opinion its alot worse at 80. PvP pretty much died after level 49 and now with these changes Blizzard has killed PvP as a whole.
I’d really like to see lawbringer or Gavin comment on this post. Theres not much you can argue with unless you do have a problem with people gearing up to be the best they can.
I am extremely disappointed in your stance as well. So what YOU are saying is that not only is your opinion the only logical one that a sane human being could have – but also that YOUR point of view is so solid that there is no possible way that any sane human being could have another point of view?
Here is the real deal. A relatively small number of people who play wow twinked. Those twinks ruined the only battleground available at level 19 for everyone who didn’t. It wasn’t much better at 29, and was still a pain for the majority of folks at 39.
Nobody gave a crap about ‘twinking’ at 49 and 59 because at that point you’re not exactly twinking. Which really proves the point that the majority had. IF skill really is greater than gear, why couldn’t people in the 59 bracket have such a dominating impact over everyone else like they did in the 19 bracket? Because it is patently false that it is a skill thing.
So, the ONLY intelligent comment I have heard from the twinking point of view was, and is, mentioned by Scones above. Instead of doing away with it, they could have given them their own battleground. But the reason that didn’t happen is that there are not enough of you to make the massive technical issues worth dealing with from a financial perspective.
So you’re going to have to resign yourself to the fact that no matter if you think that you are simply the smartest, most intelligent and by far the most right thinker in the world – your stance may not actually hold water. You are not just slightly off base, you’re flat wrong about the very point you could be trying to make.
I can see how a very small number of people found twinking to be fun.
I can see how they might want it to stay a part of the game.
I can see them having more fun playing other twinks
IF
That was what was happening.
But it wasn’t.
The fact is that twinks made people very mad. Not from lack of skill, not because you are better and they are nubs for not doing something weird, but because you shouldn’t HAVE to spend 750 gold and countless hours gearing up for WSG at 19. It’s preposterous, and I will never agree with any of you on that. Neither do the people who designed the game apparently.
You can spend less time and far less gold getting all of the best PvP gear on a level 80. And no, it is NOT true that it is worse at 80. Yes you have to gear up to meet the best, but perhaps the reason you choose to do things at 19 or 29 is that you get tired of some rogue popping every trick they’ve got on you and stun locking you to death because you don’t have the SKILL to learn how to stop them? Dumb and dumber come to mind. Can anyone really say they are the best in the JV BG at lower levels? (LoL little there)
Yes, the level 70 leg enchants were available to level 19’s, but they shouldn’t have been. As a matter of fact, probably the reason it all lasted this long was because such a small number of you guys that think all inside out like this exist. Not only can I argue with your position, I don’t think it’s even remotely reasonable or justifiable. When the teeny minority finally causes enough of a problem as a thorn to the vast majority it’s going to get plucked.
If every twink left the game Blizz would have virtually the same financial outlook for the next quarter. If everyone who hates twinks left the game it would hurt. Who do you think they are going to listen to? Face it – your opinion is flawed and you won’t admit it. There is a reason for that and I’m actually thinking of doing an article about it soon.
And it’s not that I think Iam right. I am actually neutral on the whole twinking thing. What I do know is that your ad hominem attacks mean zero. They also mean that your position is an emotional one that you are attached to in spite of, and often directly polar to reason or the weight of external evidence.
When you start your post with “as twinking dies so does Blizzrd” means that you have absolutely no clue. Anything else you say after that is not going to be any better. But you called me out personally so you get the stick.
Blizz is not only not going to be affected by this change, they will more than likely add thousands and thousands of new players next month just like they have every single month for years. And twinking or the lack thereof has nothing to do with it. Face it, twinking is a silly little niche in a huge game. The people who did it made so many other people miserable (a misery not happening at 80) that Blizz finally had to do something about it to keep 100 customers happy at the expense of 1. I’ll do that business decision all day every day. Twice this Tuesday.
So, I didn’t care one way or another. But looking at the situation what I saw was a few thousand players who liked this silly little niche they had built. And ten times more players that it affected in negative ways. It doesn’t matter if you refuse to see your behavior and viewpoint as negatively impacting others, and it certainly doesn’t make it right.
You can still twink, btw, and I mention that in the article. It just won’t make you as OP as before. So now we get to the real quick eh? IF you really liked it for the skill, and IF skill > gear, then nothing has changed right? But it was never about being 10% better for having all of the best enchants and gear designed for your level. It really WAS about being 150% better so that you could play at 29 like a level 50.
Maybe, we’ll soon see. Now at least the field really is within reach of everyone who plays. I imagine there will still be enough stuff left for you to ‘twink’ with to make a regular 19 toon go down pretty hard, and another twink feel just as hard as they did with twice the life. So it won’t really change all that much will it? If all twinks are the same power, and that power level is just more reasonable compared to all of the other non twinks then has anything changed? No, the only change will be that twinks are the real QQ’ers here and maybe 5% of you do it for something even approaching noble.
Just saying that it gets boring when you can 2 shot white attack kill any non twink shows that there is a serious balance issue there. Small minority using things outside of their intended use make life increasingly miserable for vast majority = nerf stick. Just today I realized that twinks are such a tiny minority that it wasn’t even important enough to change it until now. Makes me lol a little bit to be honest with you. You would think the way Twinks cry like little babies that there were a lot of them. Probably not, and the above post is a perfect example of the flawed types of junk logic you get from them for the most part.
Try again sir. I do everything I can do gear up the best I can, and twinking and level 80 stuff have nothing in common. At 80 the big boys use things designed for their level, at 19 you are using things designed for level 60+ = sigh your logic.
“you get tired of some rogue popping every trick they’ve got on you and stun locking you to death because you don’t have the SKILL to learn how to stop them?” ambush> cheapshot> trinket out >lol at u> kidney shot back to stunned. No skill involved. If you know a trick that takes SKILL to get out of stunlock to death by all means enlighten me.
Did I miss something here? Rogues never die in PvP then is that it? I guess it’s a lot easier to fight one before they have all those moves, so would it take more or less skill to deal with a rogue at 19 than it would at 80? Any other class for that matter, take away all but 5 skills and how much ’skill’ is actually left?
With rogues, it’s get them before they get you. A really skilled rogue is very difficult to best, so you better be on your toes. But I guess from your point of view a rogue can never be killed. So you are right – I give up.
TWINKS ARE GODS!!!!!!!!!!!!
DEATH TO BLIZZARD FOR MESSING WITH TWINKS!!!!!!
I am guessing you (lawbringer) is a twinked out lvl 80 that steamrolls over non-twinked lvl 80 in the BG.
My point is GEAR is everything in this game with skill in 2nd place. when the MAJORITY of players have the SAME gear skill is king.
If you dont twink and go into BGs you have no clue, over 90% of 19 wsg is twink on twink. So how about they take away all the stam gems leg armor head chants shoulder enchants from the game if those are SUCH a unfair advantage then My DK can have the same HP as your DK because after all having more HP is what this all boils down to. TWINKS ARE NOT GODS, they are JUST a fun thing to play when you get tired of getting steamrolled by a DK /PALL/DROOD/ROGUE with 10 to 15 k HP more then you do at 80.
Same exact issue different level
medic has a good point.
I mean honestly what makes 80 PvP any different then twinking. Deadly, Brutal, Heroic gear. Don’t these players have an “unfair” advantage over level 80’s in greens and blues. If not then you are contradicting your point, if so then you prove mine
your choice how you wanna go down
Ok, let’s clear this up. First, I did not write this article, Lawbringer did… so nothing I write here should be construed as being his opinion – it’s my opinion.
Blizzard has a long, illustrious history of of applying homogenization and “fairness” to WoW… to the point of absurdity. I won’t go into examples – just use the standard “[Class] can do this, but [Class2] can’t – that’s not fair. Therefore, [Class2] should get the same thing.”
“Warriors can Last Stand. Druid Tanks cannot. Therefore, Druids should get Last Stand as well, because its not fair that one tanking class can do something another cannot.”
etc etc etc.
Blizzard likes to “level the playing field”, and homogenize skills, abilities and power. Sometimes they take it too far… ok, most of the time they take it too far.
With that said, let’s examine the “standard, run of the mill” player that makes up the vast majority of people paying Blizz $15 a month.
They roll a toon. They level said toon to 10. They walk into a battleground because they are interested in PvP. They get SLAUGHTERED. A friend tells them that the battleground is for levels 10-19, and they should really level up to 19 before they try it again.
Said noob levels to 19. He has a few WC or VC runs under his belt, and some nice shiny blues. He’s feeling good about himself. He goes back to WSG and once again gets COMPLETELY SLAUGHTERED by so-called twinks. One-shotted. Never even has a chance.
The player who is serious will research what he can do to improve his gear. Enchants. Leg armor. He researches the absolute best gear for each slot, and makes himself a list… then proceeds to attempt to get that gear and those enchants.
Low and behold, he’s got no chance. He’s not going to be able to come up with the 1000s of gold it’ll take to properly gear and enchant a 19 twink. He’s got to have a level 80 money-maker first.
In Blizzards eyes, this is “not fair” – you shouldn’t have to have a level 80 in order to be able to compete in a level 19 battleground.
THAT’S what this is all about – Blizz has decided that you either need an 80 that can make gold for you, or you must buy gold from a gold seller in order to get the gold you need to be able to play in level 19 BGs. And they have taken steps to remove that synthetic requirement, to allow more people to be able to play those BGs.
You can’t even compare 19 twinking to Deadly, Brutal, Heroic gear at 80. You HAVE to be 80 to do 80 BGs… not some of us… ALL of us. You don’t have to have another toon at a higher level to do 80 BGs. Your one single toon has the capability to play BGs over and over again until they have collected enough honor and/or arena points to get PvP gear upgrades.
So, the difference? With 19 twinking, the people with the most gold have the best gear. With level 80 PvP, the people who have PvP’ed the most have the best gear.
Blizz wants PvP to be about PvP, not about gold.
80 bgs and not only for 80s, is so there is a major problem because i end up in 80 bgs with my mid 70s lock
“So, the difference? With 19 twinking, the people with the most gold have the best gear. With level 80 PvP, the people who have PvP’ed the most have the best gear.”
Not at all. I don’t simply give my twink gold and gear just floats down to the heavens for me. A lot of my gear are instance drops, rare drops, or quest items. Can’t buy Lucky Fishing Hat. You actually have to work for it. People need to get beyond the mindset that twinks are purely gold.
Mooninites – just because you say “Not at all” doesn’t make it so.
What I said is 100% true. Show me a level 19 fully twinked out and I’ll show you someone who is either buying gold, or has an 80 earning plenty of gold for him. Yes, there are a number of “best in slot” items for a twink that cannot be purchased. But there are more that can be purchased.
Go to any online list of twinking gear recommendations, and add up the amount of gold needed to get the ones that ARE purchasable. Now tell me how that level 19 toon is going to get that amount of gold.
Don’t sit here and give a couple of examples and use those few things as “proof” that my entire statement is false. I never said that EVERYTHING that a 19 twink uses is purchased with gold – but that’s what you’re disproving.
To add additional proof to my statement, let’s do a back check. Give one level 19 rogue 1000g and tell him to twink. Give another level 19 rogue 10g and tell him to twink. Which one is going to be better geared?
So once again, at level 19, the one with the most gold is better geared, whilst at level 80 the one who PvPs most is better geared.
If you want to keep arguing that’s fine… but stop being intellectually dishonest.
Im not saying that at all. You are the one claiming twinking is unfair because people GIVE THEMSELVES an advantage. I no way shape or form did they exploit to have the best gear. They worked for that gear to make themselves the best. Thats what WoW should be about.
How can you even claim that they were level 70 leg enchants. Although they required level 60 to equip them that doesn’t mean they were only intended for level 60+ purposes.
Im sure if every twink left the game blizzard would notice. Although we are not the majority there is still a strong enough backing to make a huge impact on Blizzards financial status. Im sure they already exceed the amount of money needed to run the game but to claim that they wouldnt notice maybe 1/10th the WoW community leaving is just illogical.
Although most people QQ about twinks that isnt a valid reason to get rid of them. Yes, and a majority of players hate Death Knights but we still have them.
besides, no one made you join battlegrounds, it is simply for entertainment as are twinks.
Twinking and level 80 PvP have everything to do with each other. With twinking you try and get the best enchants and gear you can as well as level 80.
No level 19s dont use level 60 items or enchants. If they were level 60 then they would require it. Last i checked Blackened Defias Armor is still level 19, Leggings of the Fang is still level 18, +15 agility weapon is still enchantable on any weapon regardless of level.
Most of your articles are good but you’re missing the point here. With these changes Blizzard is reprimanding people for using gear and enchants to become the best they can. Why should people be punished for that? Please explain how any of these things are required for level 60+ players.
My twink is Lummina on the Shadowmoon realm. currently she has 2400 hp unbuffed as a FC pally (level 19) With this patch I am loosing 800 hp. Thats a significant chunk of my hp. It would be like taking all your stats and reducing them by 1/3. Im pretty sure you would have something to say about that.
The killing ability is only slightly reduced by this patch. If you did your research you would notice that mostly stamina increasing items and enhancments are being taken away. Therefor killing ability will remain virtually the same while survivability will go down. So in essence we will still be killing non-twinks just as quickly. Only now WSG at 19 will be more like WSG at 80. Where it is way to short and a flag is returned about once every minute. Thus the game will be based on luck because the damage out put far exceeds the stamina and survivability.
Try again sir.
(If you dont believe me about the stamina thing do your research)
Everyone complaining about how bad twinks were, QQ more…seriously, people have the same right to twink and have fun as you do to roll the auction house…same game, different approach…so much ignorance stemming from close minded people with no foundation in fact. GG
I don’t need to do any research. It’s a flawed position. And if all twinks are getting nerfed, then twinking isn’t really dying it’s just changing. the fact that you guys crawl out of the woodwork every time someone gets close to your turf like a bunch of rabid rats is just amazing. It’s almost as bad as rogues for heaven’s sake.
I can claim they are level 70 leg enchants because they designed to be the best in the game at level 70. They are equivalent in item level to level 70 epics. What’s the problem there?
I thought it was all about skill. So by removing the ridiculous life levels you sudden;y say it’s all about luck? That’s pretty drastic. Are you saying they have so fundamentally changed the entire way the game works that you can just face roll now and the only factor that determines a win or a loss is luck?
How is damage output being far past stamina different than anywhere else in the game? This just gets weirder and weirder. And to your point of no one made the non twink join BG’s – no they don’t. That doesn’t mean that makes anything you do in a BG ok.
It was well know to me before I answered your post that it would fall on your very deaf ears. I told you I was neutral to twinks, but that their arguments use flawed logic. In other words, you cannot tell them that their position might be ‘odd.’ And heaven forbid if you do not vehemently approve of their every whim. You are speaking to me now, but until you use a line of logic that makes the game BETTER for EVERYONE it just hasn’t been seriously thought out.
Twinking makes the game better for you. Apparently it does not improve the game enough for enough other people for it to stay. Which means that it needs to change regardless of what mental aerobics you go through to justify it. People did the same thing about the world being flat and all kinds of stuff. Believing very strongly in something doesn’t make it true or right.
If we could logically discuss the overall implications of twinking, as Blizz has to do, they have to balance the needs and wants of Lummina against 11.5 million other players. You are right that you LOVE twinking. That’s just fine and it doesn’t make you a bad person. The problem is that twinking isn’t as good for the game as it is for you alone.
Bundle up all the twinks and their point of view – which you have stated as well as it can be stated, and it just doesn’t add up to something that is worth keeping because the other points around the opinion circle tilt far to heavily that the reality is something quite different for a much larger majority.
There really is nothing to research here. Twinking annoys enough people for enough reasons that it has created an unbalanced state. this unbalanced state has finally caused enough of a pain in the neck that they had to take time away from developing other things to tweak a few things to turn down the OP-ness of some enchants. Big Deal – you guys act like it’s the end of the world.
I recall the same thing happening like 500 times to other parts of the game, and very often you hear the line “this will be the end of Blizzard.” No it won’t, all this effort to balance the game is what has, and will continue to make it the most popular MMORPG of all time and still growing. It’s not a hardcore game, it’s not a casual game, it has enough of all of those elements in a balance that makes it have such vast appeal.
to be truly successful in life you have to learn to at least see opposing viewpoints, especially those that juxtapose your own. To not do so is to remain very narrow in your approach to things, and narrow approaches don’t have broad appeal. Blizzard has to consider millions of opinions, and all of them are just as valid from a business perspective as the others.
i applaud you for being passionate about your stance. But your stance is pretty much gone anyway – so now let’s see how you adapt. That’s what survival of the fittest is really about. How does a species (the twink) respond to massive change in their environment, DNA, or whatever other evolutionary (cough) force you want to propose? Will you continue on, or will you go extinct?
It’s nothing personal but I won’t cry over extinct. It happens, just like Ret pallies were God for a few weeks after WotLK. Ah, the ebb and flow of balance where no one thing lasts forever and no one thing dominates intrinsically for long.
So continue to make yourself the best. Don’t whine, get out there and prove you really are still better than everyone else. So some things got nerfed? Bah, happens all the time. Fight through adversity and continue to pwn – if you can.
I really wish you the best moon – but you’re going to have to learn to see things from a lot of angles, it’s the key to being truly Dominating. When you can see the big picture and pick your fights and Dominate every part of the game because you know how it all works together – in a balance – that’s when you really step out of the pack.
In other words there is a lot more to the game than twinking and Blizz knows that. And twinking had a negative impact on certain BG’s for long enough and in a big enough way that it had to be brought back into balance. Yin and Yank (sic) and all that crap.
I’ll also lay you a serious bet on the financial future of Blizz – have the cahones to put your money where your mouth is?
well put law….fact is, some people twink, some dont, the game is changing, and i think we can all just deal with it, twink or non twink alike
The tittle is Twinking Dies. You clearly made the mistake here.
Yes, they might say level 70 on them, and they are on par with level 70 items, but there are many items at level 19 that are on par with level 25 maybe even level 28 items yet they still only require a level of 19.
It is a majority skill. But there are many classes that rely on that stamina to help them in the game. As an Flag Carrying Paladin that stamina directly affects me the most. Although my skill is still the same my flag carrying ability has decreased because of my gear.
What do i do in a BG that is illegal or ruins the game? Again I am using the tools necessary to make my character the best. If people arent willing to do that then why reward them and punish me? Your logic doesn’t make sense.
You can claim you’re neutral to twinks all you want. The point is that you aren’t. There are many key aspects to twinking you object to. Yes, I agree things should be better off for everyone. But wouldn’t everyone be better off with the best gear and free gold too?
I’m just going to put this out now. I’m sure a lot more twinks will quit because of this patch then people will quit because of twinking. So in essence this will hurt Blizzard more then help them.
The entire game is unbalanced. If it were balanced then everyone would have the same gear and enchants. Everyone of those players has an opportunity to get the same gear and enchants I have. You act like twinks just pour money into characters and then it magically happens. Not at all, twinking is an art and it takes time and skill just like it does to gear your 80.
Of course it wont be the end of Blizzard. But this certainly can kill aspects of the game. For instance, my twink, Lummina, is perfect. She has all the gear I need. I’m maxed out on WSG marks, I have my battlestand and no real need for Honor, I play for my fellow horde. I’m going to be honest healing and running the flag isn’t exactly fun all the time. But i manage to produce wins for the horde who come to enjoy PvP and get marks and honor. Am I really doing them that much of a disservice? Sure I’m hurting the Alliance but I really don’t care to see their success. If they’re going to do everything to win then why shouldn’t I?
I don’t need you to lecture me(I certainly am not here to lecture you, I expect the same) on being successful in life. I see your viewpoint and I’m explaining why I believe it is wrong. I am perfectly happy with my life and the things I wish to change I am doing so. Thank you for the concern.
I’m sure if Blizzard asked all the participants in WoW if they wanted a free epic item players would jump all over it. Sometimes what the majority wants isn’t always best for the players of the game.
Twinks have always changed and adapted to make themselves the best or close to it. Why can’t other players do the same. This certainly won’t wipe out twinking but it will deffinatly cripple it.
I will continue to dominate, but my point is that I, and many twinks feel, that Blizzard is punishing us for taking advantage of opportunities. For instance, this is a bit of a stretch but I hope it works, maybe Blizzard decides to put a cap on the amount of gold you can make per week. The cap becomes 400 gold, but you manage to make 700 gold per week. You would definitely feel like you were being punished for going above and beyond to optimize your earnings. We feel the exact same way.
I, by myself am not going to make an impact nor am I planning to quit, but if you really think that if every player with a twink quitting would have no impact on Blizzards policies then you are clearly misjudging the amount of players with twinks. I am not saying that Blizzard would be in any financial trouble nor am I saying they would change a thing. But I am willing to lay a serious bet that Blizzard would notice a good chunk of their players missing.
So continue to make yourself the best. Don’t whine, get out there and prove you really are still better than everyone else. So some things got nerfed? Bah, happens all the time. Fight through adversity and continue to pwn – if you can.
-Lawbringer-
TO ALL TWINKS:Here is your message to the nerf of twinks.
I have a hunter twink at 19 and one at 69.
Blizzard kills my lvl 19 stone dead after having spent a fair bit on time on him.
Yet again Blizzard seems determined to ruin our fun and take all enjoyment at of the game. Consider this – twinks wheren’t doing ANYTHING not freely avaliable to anyone else in the game. It didn’t take that much gold and you have to admit that gold is much easier to come by these days. One days dailies will give you 200+ if nothing else. Another poster was also correct – killing non twinks is a bit dull. You twink because you strieve to be the best, but when there is a BG full of horde twinks with a healer behind them , you HAVE to twink to give yourself a fighting chance
My guild has naxx on farm. My main needs nothing from it nor has he for 2 months. Twinking a 19 hunter is simply, fun. I have to conclude that once again, Blizzard has listened to the whiners and cry babies.
Yes, one day’s dailies will net you 200+ gold easily. If you have an 80.
For people with ONLY a level 19 toon who want to participate in BGs, they don’t have the ability to compete without either leveling a toon to 80 or buying gold from a farmer.
Blizzard wants PvP to be about PvPing, not about gold.
This game is going on 5 years old – they desperately want to keep as many of their 11.5 million accounts active as possible. This means making business decisions about the game that appeal to the vast majority.
Enough people whined about not being able to do low level BGs, so they are “fixing it”, to keep as many people happy as possible.
Remember, people like you and me make up a tiny portion of Blizz’s customers. If they have to inconvenience us to keep a larger player base for a longer amount of time, that’s what they are going to do.
They know you’ll be back for their World of Starcraft or whatever their next gen MMORPG is going to be…
Twinking is not always about gold. The first twink I made was when my main was level 24. I wanted to be able to compete with other 19s so I did my research to find out what the best gear and enchants are and I went out and got them. I really didn’t have that much trouble making gold at a low level. There are plenty of articles out there on how to make gold as even as low as level 1.
Granted its much harder to make 200 gold a day for a level 1 or a low level player but certainly not beyond the means of reason.
I wouldn’t say we are that small. I’d say about 1/10th of accounts have a twink or more on them. If the player basis is about 12 million players well then that’s 1.2 million players who have twinks. Theres probably about an average of 1-3 twinks per game. But I’m also adding in the factor that not everyone plays 10-19 BGs
Okay, so I’d just like to say…
To the person saying it takes skill to play a twink..but not a lvl 80?
You have to be kidding me.. A decked out level 80 in hateful/deadly pvp gear takes a lot of time to do.. they too started off with greens and blues.. but it’s their skill that served them, allowing them to best more geared people.. Where as a level 19 twink.. it requires no skill other than lvling 18 times.. you can buy almost every bit of gear and every enchant it needs.. people just like to think they have skill because they can beat someone who is gear-wise less than half their level.. ALSO.. to all the 19 twinks that think they’re awesome cus they are good at getting out of your LoS.. You don’t have skill… you’re just that sad IRL that you can spend hours and hours of your day dueling at thunderbluff against all the regular lvl 19’s – and winning because of your crusader enchant and 2k health. So i say.. GOOD RIDDANCE TO TWINKS!
you have never even played a twink. I can tell by the way you speak, I mean I’m really okay with people disagreeing with me. But I dont agree with you sitting here and criticizing something you have no knowledge or experience of. Without a doubt PvPing on my 19 rogue twink is much more difficult then my 72 rogue. Although my rogue isn’t 80 its close enough ( i do have an 80 DK and 80 s priest however). I mean honestly, my 72 rogue can keep my opponent stunned until i kill the other player. Its not even a challenge at this point. My 19 rogue is so much more difficult to kill on. I actually have to take some damage.
Imagine trying to play a mage without blink mana shield, blizzard, ice barrier, pyroblast, etc. Trust me survivability is extremely decreased for them. Damage out put isnt that great either.
Why don’t you play a class at these levels before saying that 19s take less skill.
obviously you have never gone 19 twink vs 19 twink in WSG its very fun and takes more skill than you think seeing as how you both are equally geared thats the fun part about twinks seeing as how almost everyone in that bracket are twinks battles can get very intense and entertaining.
Taking a step back, as this has all been a bit emotive, I think their is a huge shift in dynamics that can be dominated.
Twinks are saying they are getting shafted, non-twinks are saying things are better without twinks.
Looking at it, I say you are both wrong.
I gave up BGs ’cause I got sick of getting one-shotted. I tried a shammy, hunter, warrior and rogue. I didn’t get special gear, just spent 5-10g at AH.
But now, maybe it is time to go back, I can spend some gold on reasonable enchants, or even level a toon to 20-30 and make them an enchanter for my BG toon knowing their wont be overpowered enchants I don’t have the gold or access to. Get the same enchants at no cost other than time.
Level appropriate enchants are still pretty good to no enchants. You still get +30 extra health, or a few more DPS, or an extra crit/dodge etc. Use them to your advantage. That is what the Twink school is saying really, that they are actually skilled and not just a toon with a sugar daddy.
All that has really happened is the extreme Twink is gone. A good craftsman never blames their tools. Instead of complaining, the “twinks” should prove themselves. Use the lesser enchants, still do the runs to get unique gear. And still dominate the BGs.
The difference is people like myself who love levelling will level an enchanter and have the same gear/enchants as the twinks.
If anything, all it will do is show who is a skilled player, and who was reliant on obscene overkill.
I am looking forward to it, and have started a couple of toons to try it out.
Hjals last blog post..My Best Birthday
I agree completely with this post, people shouldn’t be complaining so much about this change, and now casual players with low gold income actually have half a chance at lower lvl battlegrounds. This may also reduce the daily crossroads raids for horde since ally wc runs will lower now that twinks are entering their own form of the Great Depression and will actually require skill>gear to dominate their bg’s.
However, with these ups, there are also downs, excluding the complaining twink owners we already know of (…ugh…). Although the lower level enchant pricing will likely rise, even skyrocket, many of the higher lvl enchants people have been getting decent gold for will diminish, as will as some of the higher lvl mats. This could apply with LW as well for those who used to sell BC leg armors. Although lvling gets easier and easier with more blizz content, ppl who use enchants to help with their lvling will be disappointed as well as the twinks, except only 1000 times less…
I would think of more ups/downs, but I really don’t feel like it. Another great dys post.
I also need to proof-read my posts. WTB: glyph of perfect spelling and grammer.
Haha Mooninites,
You never cease to amaze me with your twink knowledge(LOL).By the previous post, sounds like you are a PvP freak.In the last five years I have seen many come and go and life goes on.It’s just a game!!!!!But in your case I have to disagree with a lvl 19 fully deck twink takes skill.What skill is there when you can 1-2 shot someone?What skill is it when you have 1.5k-2k health?
The real skill I find is I had(key word HAD) a lvl 19 twink and I found out it is sooooo boring I gave up.What was the fun…..I dunno.I went after twinks got ‘em and they got me from time to time.But jeez it got so flippen boring I started a new toon with some somewhat twinks and funny thing was I was able to take on decked out twinks because I LEARNED the class.To me that was skill.Not button mashing.As I post this So continue to make yourself the best. Don’t whine, get out there and prove you really are still better than everyone else. So some things got nerfed? Bah, happens all the time. Fight through adversity and continue to pwn – if you can.
-Lawbringer-
Right here Lawbringer says it best.Or I could have just stated,
“Would you like some WHINE with your cheese?”
Any ways this twinking nerf got blown way outta line by the twink NUTS and the ones who want to try 10-19 BG’s.Go and learn your class ,you’d be surprised at what a skilled toon can to to a twink.
You know one of the most fun thing about twinks at lvl 19? Its that rogues at this lvl totally suck. They really are crap, no poisons, and their stuns wear off in about 2 seconds. The ONE bg in which you don’t have to worry about crappy, facerolling ezymode rogues classes and blizzard ruins it.
Good move Blizz. Gavin said it best, twinks require a high level alt. That’s not fair to casual players who, well, want to PvP at 19. I always viewed twinks as the sort of people who have no problem pirating unrelased films over the internet. “Just making use of resources available to me.”
Again, twinking isn’t dead. Not even close. The great thing about PvPing at this level is that it’s just plain fun. No bossy raid leaders or snobby loot whores to worry about, no dealing with 24 other people in a PvE raid setting. No listening to QQ in your main guild. Just pure fun, playing with other like minded people.
I’m glad Blizzard took all the OP stuff away. I can live with that. It will balance it out for those who can’t afford them or aren’t actually twinking but maybe just passing through. Twinks will still dual box and run themselves through SM, Uldaman and RFD countless times trying to get that rare drop. Thankfully now the gear from instances is actually better than the BoE stuff due to Blizzard taking the higher level enchants away.
Anyway, next time Law, write more articles about things you know about… like… buying up mass amounts of mats pre-3.1 and then selling them for huge profits post-3.1…
Bob, are you saying I know nothing about twinking? The screenshot above is my 19 twink with, as you can see, the engineering goggles, glacial stone, silver linked, Blackened Defias, Thorbia’s blah, blah, blah. Only thing I would be missing as a twink NOW would be to update the +100 health to chest and +30 Stam, +10 agi on legs.
I made the guy and then just never did any BG’s with him. That’s how I know just about how much a twink would cost someone on Fenris. 750 gold, that’s how much. There is only so much time I will spend farming, but I could buy about 75% of what a twink needed for around 750 gold in about a week. The glacial stone, cloak, shoulders, belt, seal of Wrynn took some time, but just a couple of WC runs and a lot of hoofing around SW, oh and a few trips into the start of VC.
So yeah, I know a thing or two about twinks. Matter of fact, with all the changes I might actually use the dude for once just to see what’s up. Yeah I blew some loose change on the leg armor but – yawn.
Turns out my health dropped about 400, but that’s before replacing anything and filling up the other gear with enchants. So in the end probably something like 350. Not a bad debuff. Never had the weapon enchanted, I got busy with other things before I did that so nothing lost there.
Anyway, next time you post, you should assume that I know a lot about just about everything in this game. Otherwise it would be very hard to tell anyone about anything.
Well… considering you made a twink yet didn’t even use it shows you don’t know as much as you think. The level 19 bracket isn’t where the best action is. I suggest you try the level 39 bracket if you want to know more about twinking to thus inform people correctly that twinking isn’t dead.
And why is the level 39 bracket best? TBC chants.
Sigh, what is it with you guys? LoL
Seriously, I even said that twinking isn’t really dead, it just got hit by a big nerf bat. So in a way it’s not really quite twinking any more, just gearing well and properly.
And just because I only made a 19, and not a 29 or 39 and rarely used him doesn’t really mean I don’t know enough to comment on the subject.
But I’m sure this is falling on deaf ears once again . . .
Myself having a twink applauds this idea. Honestly, the only fun part about twinking was the planning of gear and the calculations to sqeeze as much out of your gear as possible. The play was a bore and redundant as hell…
this absolutly ruined the lower level BGs. Now no one stands a chance against pallis or hunters, just like the 80 BGs. Good Job to all the whiners for gettin this nerf, the wait times are horrible then once you get in you get steamrolled and 2 shotted ANYWAY instead of 3 or 4 shotted when wh had more HP. Myybe they should have some 19-29-39 pvp gear rewards…. /sigh
ya now all BGs suck. I mean if you go over 50 you get bombarded by 75% Death Knights if you go under 50 then paladins, hunters, and rogues shred you.
Lawbringer, In my opinion you made a twink just to say you had one so when they got nerfed you could claim that you were neutral. correct me if im wrong
“what is with you guys, sigh”
- twinks are the most passionate and core players of WoW. You can call us the minority all you want but the reality is our voice is much stronger then you give us credit because we actually communicate with each other and the WoW community.
Of course you’re wrong. You’ve been being wrong for more than a week now about me, my position, and a number of other things as well. lol
Armory for Lawfullgood, the paladin in question, shows the last time he was logged in before the other day to take the Screen shot was 1/3/09. The achievements he earned on that day are related to past events he had completed that merely updated on 1/3/09, so he had to have existed before that point. That also means he could not have logged in any time between the release of WotLK and 1/3/09.
So that’s what, at LEAST 6 months old that he has to be. And I’m telling you that he was made over a year ago. He’s even guilded in a 19 twink guild for crying out loud lol.
And yes, sigh. Twinks are not the core players of WoW. Twinking was your core playing flavor, but by FAR the vast majority of players are solo casual. Not even PvE raiding is the majority. Twinks are WAY down the list.
Cmon moo – at some point you have to be ok with being a minority.
And if you’re being blowed up now, and you weren’t before and the classes blowing you up now didn’t blow you up before, don’t you think that puts about 100 tons of rocks on your theory that it was about skill and not gear?
You lost a little stam and now people blow you up that couldn’t before? Yikes dude. I’m not sure what to say at this point. They didn’t change the skill mechanics for those classes at those levels, so it MUST have been the gear.
Which is what I was saying all along. Twinking was not about skill. Twinking was ALL about the gear, otherwise the guys who had been on the twinks WITH gear would still be pwning WITHOUT the gear. Since they are not, it’s pretty evident that it was the gear.
And that’s why the original article was absolutely correct. Twinking as we knew it is dead. No matter how you feel about it. No matter how many twinks there are or how consolidated and powerful their voice. No matter if it bothers you to hear it. The fact remains that some of the enchants twinks were using changed the fundamental way that certain segments of PvP operated in a way that Blizz thought had to change. It changed, and now they probably feel that they have created a more balanced situation as a result. Not sure if they have, but they changed it nonetheless.
You’ve been arguing with me and Gavin for a week about this and every point you have been trying to make has been pretty much absolutely crushed by what you just said. I hate to tell you this, but the only thing you’ve pwned here is your own theory – and you said it yourself.
You can call me or my stances wrong all you want. That’s a matter of perspective. You can’t seem to grasp that.
I wouldn’t exactly call casual players that log in maybe twice a week core players. Sure they can be the majority but lets examine at what they do in-game and how dedicated they are. You can go onto the World of Warcraft forums and select any battlegroup. You will see thousands of threads all made by and for twinks.
“You lost a little stam and now people blow you up that couldn’t before? Yikes dude. I’m not sure what to say at this point. They didn’t change the skill mechanics for those classes at those levels, so it MUST have been the gear.”
- no, I can still beat non-twinks as I almost always could. When you loose over 1/3 of your hp tell me how it affects your kill/death ratio. Especially as an FC pally.
“Twinking was not about skill. Twinking was ALL about the gear”
- very ignorant. Some of the best PvPers I know are twink. Its not like all twinks go and beat up on non-twinks. We have our twink vs. twink skirmishes, and people still have excellent fighting tehcniques on their 19s, some I even use on my 72 rogue. Infact i learned how to play my high level rogue from a 19 twink. Of course not all abilities, but alot of my fighting technique is based on movement and timing, something i picked up in the 10-19s bracket that carries over into higher level brackets. I can have worse gear in those higher level brackets and still kill well geared players by myself. To attack twinks skill is just illogical because they are some of the best PvPers in the game, thats what they specialize at. If you still dont believe me i can show you twink v. twink arena videos. Plenty of them on Vengence forums.
Originally Blizzard said they were focusing on end game content. I would hope they could balance that before they go to the lower brackets. Its pretty undisputed that more people are unhappy with DK’s in PvP then twinks. Frankly i enjoy the 10-49 PvP much more then 50+.
You’ve given nothing but your perspective. You have done nothing but attacked twinks skill and claimed they rely only on gear which is just idiotic.