WotLK – PVP Rogues OP?
Posted on September 11th, 2008 by Nameless Demon Hunter under General Tips
Everyone is stoked about the new talent trees in the upcoming expansion. There are an extreme amount of new abilities that come into context, creating a whole new field of strategies. WotLK will certainly shift the way we play not only in PvP, but PvE as well.
If you haven’t checked out the new talent points then get your butt over to Blizzard’s website and be amazed.
Of all the characters out there, I am glad to say rogues look insanely sick. I think they are finally getting the true buff they deserve in certain aspects. Now don’t get me wrong, rogues already have a great advantage in the PvP world. But it is pretty basic; stunlock and hemo.
Rogues in PvP only have 1 of 2 choices. That is, go 20/41 assassination/hemo or go combat fists and pray you have a good priest (2v2 only). But what about the good old days when rogues use to deal that large burst of DPS via ambush? We still have a high DPS rate right now, but it is more of a consistent damage rather than a good burst. This being due to the resilience gear making such talents like ambush and backstab basically useless.
As we look at the different talent trees for the rogue, what is blizzard trying to tell us? Look at the subtlety tree, here is where it really excited me the most; Waylay and Slaughter from the Shadows. Nothing but pure ambush/backstab buffs.
With those two buffs, ambush rogues finally have their place back in the WoW society of what they should be; assassins striking from out of the shadows with a vicious dagger. What really pulls it all together is the shadow dance. This is the main feature that blizzard sticks out saying, ‘Hey, ambush rogues are back in the game.”
If you realize what shadow dance does, then there is no other substitution then using ambush between stealths. Using garrote over and over will be a vigorous waste, while cheap shot would be pointless with diminishing returns. This talent point was made directly for multiple ambush uses; anything else is not even an option.
Even though ambush rogues are very rare right now, I still play the spec (as well as every other spec). Using a 2k AP unbuffed rogue will crit SS ambushes at around 4-5.5k points of damage. If you add resilience into the picture you can lose up to about 1k of damage depending on the resilience rating.
I hit S3 warriors around 3k of SS ambush damage; it’s really only a chip in their side with their massive 13k hps+ and daunting plate armor. Now let’s bring blade dance into the picture. I can open up with a 3k ambush through SS, then I trigger blade dance. This gives me 3 extra opportunity attacks to use ambush at will, with 2.5k points of damage per strike. Do the math, even with resilience gear the warrior will be down over 10k of damage within a short period of time. And the best part; there will be no stun locking, which in turn procs second wind.
This is still assuming that I can get all 3 strikes from the blade dance off. Who knows what factors will be brought in, such as rend or a lock’s magic spell causing a dot on the rogue, disabling stealth. Then again, this should happen so fast that a warrior shouldn’t be able to do anything but /beg. As soon as he turns around the blade dance should be set in motion, confusing him and hopefully creating outright terror. I would definitely panic if I got hit like that.
Now another scenario; let’s assume a decently geared mage but with NO resilience is attacked by this set up. Rouges with 2k AP can SS ambush crit mages for 5k damage easy (resilience drops this down to 3.5-4k). Using blade dance, a mage will be dead in seconds if they do not think fast by using frost nova, blinking out, or ice block (POM polymorph FTW). What other choice do they have? Any character is automatically thrown into the defensive while the rogue can have their way with them and be in total domination of the battle. That is, after all, the whole idea of a rogue; getting the opportunity attack.
The real questions are: How will this all play out at level 80? How much AP will rogues have that level? Is resilience going to destroy their DD (direct damage) like it has now?
All I can say is, I am very excited to find out.
Danggggggggggg. I am so glad I rolled a rogue from the beginning. I hope it works out as nice as it sounds.
Also, just wanted to point out it’s called Shadow Dance, not Blade Dance.
Yeah dude. I put shadow dance first then mistakened it for blade flurry. The rogue mind…..
rogue is soooo loved by Blizzard….. it’s no way a caster can live under their little dagger…
Be careful about how much love they give the Rogue. Hunters used to be “loved” by Blizz, then they nerfed them…badly….A 42 Hunter (MM) used to be able to crit for 2k with Aimed shot and Hunters mark……..This enabled them to freeze trap, run a bit away, Serpent Sting, Concussion Shot, and Aimed Shot, then rinse and repeat. Doing this 2 times (or just freeze, AS, CS, run away until CD up on Freeze, and repeat) usually enabled a Hunter to take out almost any class. Even just AS took a huge chuck out of a Warriors health.
Good Post.
I am also very interested in what they are going to do with stats come WOTLK. Is it just gonna be a simple double max atm so we will all have 20k health. Or are they gonna taper it?
Whats your thoughts from playing the expansion gavin/lawbringer?
YAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAYAY IM STILL HARDCORE AMBUSH WOOOT BLIZZ!!!!!!!!!!! Never left the old ways. I fucking hate maces and fists ITS TRADIITION DUDE!!!. GREAT.
HUG
Glad to see daggers coming back properly!
/wave to Mace Stun Effect.
Hello to stealth ambush – rinse & repeat.
I think my warlock will not be as competitive in Lich King PvP (although with demon form who knows!)
I have to disagree with you, any time a smart warrior gets hit by this he will put on a shield for one reducing damage by even more, and the mage will just iceblock. also, shadowdance no longer puts you back in stealth, it just allows you to use all skills that require stealth out of stealth. With this said the whole confusing part will be gone, plus you are unable to stunlock which means if you do it to any melee class they are jsut going to either stun you and kill your cooldown or smash your face in for equal or atleast a considerable amount of damage.
Yep. Shadow Dance no longer puts you into stealth but allows the use of stealth abilites with a 2 second cooldown for the 9 second duration. This actually makes more sense to me.
Sill, people have posted videos of rogues doing mass stunlock with shadow dance and it really is the stupidiest thing Ive seen. Also, premediation now only has a 20 second cooldown which means every opponent you face solo, you’ll have those extra two combat points available.
Further more, opportunity attacks now grant 100% chance to gain an extra combo point off ambush/CS/garrote. So you will always be entering a battle with 5 combo point advantage, ready to distribute your kindey shot for the stun and save your abilites/energy for the burst dps via ambush.
My first toon was a rogue (wasn’t everyone’s?!?) and I got him to lvl 63 when I finally left him in disgust because I was useful for only one thing (DPS) and at that I couldn’t compete with Hunters, Mages, and Warlocks – and they brought a lot of extra raid goodies to the table that I simply couldn’t. Even at lvl 70, our #1 DPSer is a Fury Warrior, and the best Rogue is too far down the DPS list. I know how AoEing creates better numbers than a Rogue’s single target DPS and that can skew the results of a damage meter, but still, for a raid, it is hard to justify the slot for a rogue. I am also very excited about the Tricks of the Trade ability, which will be a serious asset to a raid and be a reason to bring along a Rogue and let him stealth up to mobs before the tank pulls….
Now I am leveling him up to 70 so I am ready when the Xpac comes out – I am going to love Blizzard’s restoring the Rogue to what he was supposed to be all along.
“This is still assuming that I can get all 3 strikes from the blade dance off. Who knows what factors will be brought in,…”
Considering Shadow Dance takes puts you into stealth every 3 seconds for 9 seconds unless the opponent is trapped, stunned or afk for those 9 seconds, and does not turn around (ambush forces you to be behind opponent), and does not fear, stun, etc. you, they still have the option of running.
This does however, bode well for the Subtlety rogue in pve allowing him/her to pound off 20K (in level 70 terms) damage fairly quickly (assuming the tank can hold aggro).
Don’t get me wrong, of all the specs Subtlety will be more dominant than Assasination or Combat, but mere common sense of an opponent will limit its PvP success.
Well i dont think it will dominate, but i think it will remain the more common PvP, the other specs bring too much to just disregaurd as not valuable with the right class for a 2v2 arena. perhaps assassination with its never ending magic dispell and bleed removal will dominate well with a heal jsut because casters like Spriest and locks, along with even mages (frost nova dispell) will be unable to keep damage up.
Rogues are overpowering enough now their gonne be even more so? WTF stealth and vanish aren’t enough lets give them more crap to cheapen the game.
/groan…
And I thought rogues had their way with my toons in pvp enough already.. now they’re getting buffed more?
Guess it’s time to grind my banker rogue toon up to 80 lol
How about making stunlock . . .impossible? That would even out this new (and I agree, a nice change to the ambush ways of old) balanced.
Yawn, it sounds like a great way to down an opponent and all but wheres the fun. My main is a 70 rogue and I always spec for whats going to be the most challenging and fun way to play. When I started out I was a shank and run rogue just like most of the others when it came to pvp and pve (Sub /assassin specs. Yes I know combat swords is said to be the fastest but it is the most boring while lvling). But the moment I hit 70 I did something different, I changed to Combat swords (no points in sub what so ever, combat. Ruth, Imp EV, Relent, Lethal and Malice in Assassin). I do not Pve on my rogue other than to do a few dailies whey I’m in the mood, I’ve found Combat swords to be the most interesting and a very effective spec to “Healer Hunt” (I love running around taking out healers while the guys that are being healed are too caught up to save the one saving them lol) and take down Wars, rogues, shammies and pallies (All specs). Theres no hiding or running in my play style or spec. “What you got me before I could stealth” “What I was seen by a lock” ‘Oh well you will die the same”. Shadow dance is nice but I’m looking at “Stay of Execution” (Disables skills like Kill shot Hunter and Execute, while not under the influence of Sudden death Warrior) and “Prey on the weak” which will give further buffs to my play style. Rogues aren’t becoming more like they should be because of one talent. Every true rogue knows that there are tons of different ways to spec and the best spec that you can have is one that supports your play style. So if you see a rogue charging at you out of stealth and proceeds to kick your B.U.T.T. You’ll know it’s me. Don’t respec just for one skill, respec because you found a better spec that allows you to have more fun as a Rogue!
P.S Leeroi your rogue is doing something wrong (unless he is seriously out geared), tell him to try respecing til he finds something that allows him to do more damg and have fun….
Agreed … not sure why you think rogues need more assistance from the talent tree. Rogues need to be nerfed.
“they are finally getting the true buff they deserve”
LOL…
Rogues??? Buff they DESERVE?!?!
Rogues need a nerf, (speaking on behalf of my brother), it’s way to easy to become a victim of the rogue’s constant “stealth, stun, stab stab stab” rinse and repeat.
Seriously who are trying to kid, eh?
They are trying to give rogue options other than stun lock which everyone seems to complain about. Which by the way is getting a nerf like the locks fear, our stuns will suffer from diminishing returns. Without new buffs Rogues will be stunk in PvE only, and don’t forget that all classes are getting buffs, have fun with the war that can execute you regardless of your hp lvl
where have u been the last 6 months.. the rogue is TH MOST OVERPOWERED CLASS IN THE GAME!! BAR NONE!!!
they have more escape mechs than all but a frost mage.. they can lock 99% of ALL classes down and leave us unable to even dam well get an insta off.. deal HUGE damage QUICKLY!!
its the flavour of the month toon.. every little no skill noob ahs one.. pvp servers have been ruined by the dam nubs.. and u say u want MORE power.. u want BUFFING!!
WAKE UP!!! YOU ARE OP!!!
i for one demand a nerf on A: cloak of no skill.. B: vanish..
nowadays people who play rogues NKOW that unless they stupid 99% of ALL classes are dead iwhenever they so decide.. its not even a challenge.. so please.. stop the whine of “roguees need more buffs” nerf the dam thing back to the stone-age.. and fix fear.. cos its jacked.. (im not a no skill SL/SL loc b4 u ask and i personally despise anyone who plays that skillset as its for 3 yr olds)
Really, Rogues OP?
Let’s look at this scenario: BG
I (full sub to lvl 58) stealth up to a lock and SS him, oh wait….puppy’s paranoia screws me over and even if I kill the lock, the dots he gets off in that time kill me anyway. lock > rogue.
I stealth up to a mage. Cheap shot. What? how can u blink outta that? FN, FB….the routine continues. Mage > Rogue
I stealth up to a preist. Shadowform = OP, Psychic scream = OP. needless to say, SWP and MF gank. Preist > Rogue
I stealth up to a hunter. “How is ur pet doing so much damage, and ur stunlocked?” CS, HM, sting, arcane…kite to death. and let’s not add the armour change at 40. Hunter > Rogue
Shammy time. TOTEMS, STRENGHT, FIRE SHOCK That’s all that needs to be said. Shammy > Rogue
Now to plate classes…
Pali’s, hmmm…..unless ur a combat/stunlock rogue, ur screwed. bubble, HL, Hammer….the pali will out last you, unless they bring back the nice ambush skills. for now, Pali > rogue
lovely warrior time, the ONLY chance for a rogue to live this one is to pop evasion (the the dodge=combo point build) and hope his overpower doesn’t whack u. stunlock ftw and hold on for dear life. That 8-12k hp and more armour than the russian army makes warriors ridiculous to drop. Plus rend just fucks us over. warrior >; rogue.
My PERSONAL fave, druid v rogue.
Hmmmm there are like 80 different scenarios here. Which form is the little bastard in? Unless he’s in caster form (not likely) ur not gonna be able to sap (for multiple pvp enemies). Bear form armour, cat form melee dps, caster dps, and a potential for top heals of the game druids will prolly spank any rogue who can’t figure out the druid’s spec. druid > rogue.
And for WotL, DKs will prolly be just as bad bc they seem to me, to be a watered down lock in plate mail. Dots AND Mail AND AP, great. Rogues can only enter /playdead and hope for the best. (btw, idk if that’s a real macro or not.)
AND YOU SAY WE NEED A NERF? Go have fun kiting, doting, armour raping, and constant AP/strength beating us!
I want to see your armory. I bet you’re horrible.
over powered? Rofl, as a class the only natural defense we have is our high Evasion and last time I checked that does not work on spell casts. Mages, locks, priests have higher magic res, so there escape talents are all based on getting ground or protecting from close range attacks (As well as pallies bubble). Every class has traps snares ect, look at druids. “Casts Entangle Root” “Casts Travel Form” now they can heal, spam moonfire ect. Rogues can’t heal nor can the shape shift and remove all snares, we don’t have an instant entrapment other than Cheap Shot but we need stealth to use it or Blind but that has a 3min cool down. With out Vanish or stealth all together rogue is a failed dps War spec when it comes to pvp. ” Rogue Casts Vanish, Rogue gains stleath” “Rogue killer Casts Aoe” “Rogue loses Stealth” and now we are wide open to getting our butts handed to us again. Cloak of Shadows, great skill 1min cool down, “Lockness Casts rotation of dot spells” “Rogue casts Cloak of Shadows” “Lockness Casts rotation of dot spells”. CoS is a good skill but you can only use it once per min, thats it. We can use it to regain stealth, get our of a snare or Dot attack but it only buys us a few secs. You can cry all you want but every class has their ways of surviving, think about all of the other classes skills and what skills (if any) other classes use to defend or get out of it. People roll rogue for 3 reasons and they are the same reasons for every other class. 1) The class looks fun and fits my play style (will do really good at that class) 2) Gets sick of being out dpsed, out healed, out lived or being killed by that class (Will do good or bad depending if they are willing to adapt their play style) 3) 3 is made up of people that cry for nerfs because they can’t play their own character up to par in order to compete with the class or classes that are giving them problems, they reroll, try the class and fail. They fail because they can’t get past what they think the class should be and never adapt and fully bring out the potential of the class. So whine, cry to friends “Rogues suck they are so OP, locks suck they are so OP, Druids suck they are so OP ect” . Go on the forums and make a thread under an alts name, “nerf this nerf that”. All because your too weak to adapt a plan to out play that class. My advice to people who cry for nerfs is either to reroll, respec or relearn their own class and if all else fails, quit WoW and go play a game where it takes a week to go up one lvl…
question oftrack
Will the new levels of skills at 450 be available to level 60 or 65?
as in:
level 5 – 75, level 10 – 150, 20 – 225, 35 – 300, 50 – 375, so will 450 be available at 60?
i own u all
Will you people never cease to amaze me in your arrogance of whinning that rogues are getting buffed. If you think with a closed mind you are not a good player and refuse to adapt. All i ask of you people is to think with a open instead of closed mind and remember we got nerf stick badly since beginning of just WoW. We were once DPS kings in raids now we are outdone even by ret paladins. Finally do your bloody research, and think of it this way. Rogues were modeled after ninjas. Hence garroate, backstab, blind, etc… yes stealth and vanish too. and we deserve a upgrade since all jerks do are whine ,and nerf stuff like Hemo, .. I can see Cheat death getting nerf ,but now stunlock from maces? And every class has had its share of painful nerf. mainly Rogues, warlocks, and shaman. Thank you , and quietly contemplate this facts before flaming me or others. This is just my opinion.. and probably the opinion of many others
Most rogues I see are combat double sword. Many of them are weathered pvp veterans and/or have arena teams. Maybe thats the 3rd pvp option you forgot to mention.
Incoming double post… sorry about that. I agree that rogues arent in danger of falling behind in pvp. Most can keep you stunlocked as is and they have plenty of other tricks to effectively restart or abandon the battle. Not everyone has Blink to escape chain ambushes.
As a prot warrior (in hiding as a fury warrior atm cause no one wants warriors tanking 5 mans anymore) I have to say the only class that does not kill me quickly is a rogue. If caught by a rogue while out questing/grinding its a simple drop to defensive, TC, rage potion shield wall and hope like hell I have not been stunned yet. Shield block, revenge and hope it stuns the pesky flea. If it does, run, drop to berserker and intercept. Hopefully another stun. Anyway – little off topic.
It comes down to who stuns first. He who stuns first wins.
Are they overpowered? Dunno. Any class played well is powerful.
lol I always find it funny that people will pick on rogues, but you don’t hear them complaining when they roll for the rogues gear. there is no really great clothe gear for rogues, but hunters, shamans and druids can all wear and use our stuff and will roll for it just to get a little bonus for a week or so till some chain stuff drops or for a offset. But they get real peeved when a warrior or pally rolls on their gear lol . With weapons rogues r more limited and then we have to roll against just about every other class for some decent ones . lets nerf the chainmail guys so they can not wear leather after lvl 50 lol . i wonder if they would like that?
I love the idea of each class being limited to their own class of armor. Pallys rolling for druid healing gear, and shammies rolling on cloth, is just wrong. I am in a guild that limits this type of action, but I see it all the time in pugs. As a disipline/holy priest I am very limited in the gear I can use, and really dislike giving cloth to a druid.
But, back on subject, I play a rogue, but exclusively PvE. I love this guy, he is able to sneak in and stun, but when he gets spotted, he can kick the poor discoverer’s arse in short order. Yay, give this guy more tricks, I love it.
I’ve seen alot of people saying “combat double swords” and “combat fists”, infact i’ve seen those words floating around in general.
FYI: Combat swords, infact combat anything has been dead for Arena PvP since the nerf to HARP spec (that being prep doesn’t reset adren rush). The spec now (and has been since that nerf) is Shadowstep (good ol 20/0/41).
The only spec that realistically uses Combat is Lock/Rogue now and it’s purely for the burst it gives since Lock/Rogue is more about damage then mobility (since one target is generally locked in someway either by fear or stuns). If anyone has any doubts on Shadowstep or my knowledge of the Rogue class/what i’ve said, feel free to check out my Rogue/Rogue strategy guide i’ve written (it’s posted on http://www.arenajunkies.com under content feedback then strategy, it’s a long read but i believe comprehensive).
P.S: I concur with you Gavin, Rogues look pretty OP in WotlK and it’s refreshing to see that daggers are now being brought back!
The best way to balance WoW in terms of the rogue I believe is … to dropkick them out of the game! There’s no purpose to them, as others have pointed out (re: no one takes them in their pve groups because they get outdps’d by mages and locks which bring other goodies to the table) and their concept and mechanics do not match up. As someone said, they’re supposed to be like a ninja. Yet, unlike a ninja, that relies upon stealth and skill, these guys rely upon being able to up and vanish right in front of you! Yep, they’re actually Archmages in disguise, casting improved invisibility.
Now, I dislike PvP in general. Not in concept, mind you, but from experience of a few stupid parts of the game that get highlighted in PvP, such as the rogue. However, despite this, I was killing a flagged alliance mage a little while back. Typical of alliance scum all about a dozen (well, 2) of his friends came along to help. One of them was a stunlock rogue. I knew I was toast, despite having just popped my HS to get back up to full life (just on 13k). However, the mage was almost dead and so I just decided to shadowburn to kill the mage and then die myself. Oh wait, sorry I forgot, no you aren’t allowed to cast an instant, because rogues get to keep you stunned forever (Orc racial stun resist + meta gem stun resist = crap stun resist). I spammed that button but died before I could get it off. From full hp down to zero before being able to cast a single instant. No, you’re right, I should just l2p my class and quit whining. I should respec. If that doesn’t work I should reroll. Yes, you’re entirely correct, it’s me that’s at fault, not at all anything wrong with rogues. Oh wait, they’re nerfing stunlock? So I’m not the only one that had a problem with it? Well, maybe there is something to this “rogues are BS” sentiment after all.
Now, barring their removal from the game altogether, I can suggest a way in which they can be brought more in line with their concept, at least as far as PvP is concerned. Remove “stealth”. Stealth is such a crap name for what they do. They really turn invisible. Stealth means “I am where you’re not looking” and what they give is “you can’t see me even when you’re looking”.
In its place, in pvp, rogues can have a somewhat seethrough character (camo), no nameplate and immunity to tab targeting. This would mean you guys would actually have to WORK at stealthing, rather than just hit a button. THAT is what being a rogue is all about.
While we’re talking about differences for PvP, let’s mention threat too. In PvE threat is meaningful. It should also be meaningful in PvP. This could easily be achieved by a damage buff. If you’re taunted or whatever, the ability which caused the threat should put a debuff on the target that will increase damage caused by the threatening player/pet. This increase would only work if the player/pet is NOT the target of threatened player/pet. So if I pull out a VW and you just laugh (who wouldn’t?) and keep targeting me anyway, those threat debuffs on you are going to increase my VWs damage against you. You switch targets to the VW (ie, acknowledge that he is a threat) and the debuff damage bonus stops working, putting him back down to normal damage. Basically, it means that if you turn your back on a warrior and don’t pay them respect (ie, target them) then you’re going to pay for it.
Something similar could be used for rogue “stealth” abilities. If the rogue is not the target of the player being attacked then he can use them. He doesn’t have to be in some sort of stealth mode or anything. Just has to catch his opponent unawares.
You have no concept of the rogue class and us being out dpsed has nothing to do with the classes. I as a rogue have no problem out dpsing Locks, mages, hunters or any other class unless they out gear me by a lot. As a lock your complaining out our stealth? lol Locks can see us (unspeced) about 10 yards ahead of them while we are stealthed with the Fel Hunter out. We have a skill called Evasion which raise our dodge but a certain % (depending on the rank you use) and it has a visual effect of making rogues look transparent. But you can still see them from half the field away np at all, and thats what you want to turn stealth into? rofl, You wont need skill to survive we would need a miracle. VW threat? O.o o.O Lets see on top of fear, exhaustion (Afflic tree), Aftermath, Pyroclasm, shadowfury (Destro spec) you want another snare? Now I know that you might not want to put points into some of those talents so you can maximize damg out put but giving you guys another snare is a joke. Locks don’t need it, if your getting owned in pvp do this, try diff pets (Fel Hunter is most likely the best pvp pet out side Felguard), respec, get better gear or learn to play your class better. In pvp you don’t have the time to just sit in one spot spamming skills while your walker holds aggro. Your comment does not offer any help to your class or to the World of Warcraft. Your just looking for an easy way to get kills on other classes. As a class the only high def rogues have is their dodge thats it, it’s only good for other rogues, shammies, wars and pallies, but if you look closely shammies and pallies can use spells that will hit us rogues all the same, and wars have Over power (as skill that is used after you opponent dodges, Over power can not be dodge what so ever, I.E wars have a huge advantage even while we dodge there other attacks). Read my other comments, get to know the class better and get to know your class better…
I swear, u r a dumbass….remove rogues from the game…l2p, stfu. It’s really simple.
Plus u being a lock and whinning is just ridiculous. lockw/ puppy = rogue rape.
Oh man, more slice and dice for rogues! They are already at the point where a caster is just raw meat. I am a very well PVP geared Alliance 70 balance Druid, and I consider it a bit of luck to survive a well executed rogue attack. Their attacks are furious to the point of being almost totally helpless while they finish you off. Yes, and I have read and try to implement all the strategys of defense against a rogue. I’m at the point where I now just try to get a faiere fire and moonfire off on them and shift to cat form and attempt to run away and survive I am a decent player, although I am sure better players may survive a rogue attack much more successfully. Anyway, more power to the rogues, they seem to be the choosen ones at the moment, although I believe wow does rotate the “at the moment favored class”. I guess you “back stabbers” can celebrate the moment. haha
i rolled a rogue and i was highly disappointed in end game. Frankly rogues are incredibly boring to PvE with. I was hoping with WotLK blizzard would finally spice up the PvE aspect so i would feel compelled to level. Can’t say i’m disappointed, but i’m not thrilled either.
they keep changing all the talents now it looks like shadow dance just lets you do moves that require stealth. out of stealth mode. which is kinda cool but im still liking the combat tree. and im probably going to stay combat swords. cuz unfair advantage and killing spree
but i wont know until the xpac actually comes out.. cuz like i said. they keep changing everything with all these new beta patches
i refuse to read long posts. this one is too long as it is. so u guys that are writing a novel. who has time to read it??
i think rogues should be able to use all their skills with weapons not just with daggers ambush with a sword or mace and how come we can use throwing axes and not axes them selves? there are some nice axe i would love to use on my rogue and if u wont to get ride of stealth them our flashpowder should be a AOE with a range of 30yard and our sprint should drop cantrips to slow presute and we should have traps to set ppl up for our ambush .lol and maybe a posion that make ppl drunk lol ok maybe a bit much with that one.
LOL Yep rogues will be over powered unless there is a Protection Paladin standing guard.
Personally,i h8 seeing a Rogue coming at me in PvP.This is the face i make when i see one coming –>
,then hightail it out of there lol,but as for saying nerf? nah.All classes are seeing nerfs and buffs.It’s not fair to just QQ over 1 class getting “ragged” on.All classes have their up’s and downs.Stunlock*,sure is a pain in the butt,but also it’s the players fault for getting trapped in it to.(Not saying that I don’t,cause I do too) Now,I haven’t had a high lvl Rogue*,nor one at pre-BC,but to those that have/had and have said that it’s great to see daggers coming back,well then,Blizz is doing the right thing.Keeping their players happy.
Bottom line is sure alot of us don’t like being a victim to a Stunlock*,but i also don’t like being a victim of Fear,or anything where i lose controll of my toon,but thats PvP.So whining about a few abilities of a class is unfair to the other ppl that like playing that class.
As to PvE and how viable they were in BC,personally i believe that to be a question of your guild/your gear and the way that you play.I’ve known alot of PvE Rogues that did crazy DPS on the meters/and known some that had a hard time.Anyway thats my few words,and with that i’m gonna go back to playing the game.
Take care,and have fun!
LOL I as a Lock and Druid have faced rogues many times and while I hate thier stealth and attacks that incapacitate me. But its part of the game. When I use the rogue luike talents of the druid I like them so more power to WOW and enjoy the buff while you can. eventually it will get nerfed like everyhting else due to whiners. Peace and happy hunting
hahahaah some ppl here are clueless :O its all about skills no mather what class you play alot of you dont seem to have any skills. Rogues need shorter cds!!
well, you’ve opened up a can of worms here but i have to say that the rogue is utterly UTTERLY ‘OP’ and has been for the past 18 months.
Cloak of NO skills – the biggest mistake blizzard ever made.
This class is pvp on ezy mode. My main is a lock and i hate this class because they are so ridiculously OP, and becasue they are SO SO common.
Every emo angsty teenage kid has one and thinks that being able to pop out of nowhere, do huge damage and then vanish again makes them uber in pvp.
I have news for you guys, it doesn’t; playing an OP class doesn’t make you good, it just means you’re playing, an OP class.
Yes locks can see them, but by the time you can is almost too late to do anything anyway.
I too would remove them from the game – in any wsg you will have 4 rogues on the horde side. It frankly, gets boring. This class is clearly the dev’s favourite class they have had so many nice buffs and WOTLK continues that.
And NO NO NO, my first toon was NOT a rogue. That was a dumb comment.
Seriously Rogue DESERVES buff? The easiest class to play (When you check out warcraftmovies.com there are 2 skilled paladins 3 skilled shamans 8 skilled mages 1 skilled priest and …. and finally 99999999999 skilled rogues – that means ITS NOT ABOUT SKILL) Its just pushing 3 buttons and win or run away when you are losing. yea you are very skilled and its VERY fun
And people don’t see how unbalancing/overpowered these new talents/skills are?
Sure, sounds like fun. In practice, a load of overpowered skills make the game a cooldown war, where everyone dies instantly, providing the other player has his cooldowns up. Fail more, WoW.
Gavin & Lawbringer. I’m curious what your guy’s views on Rogues are. Do you think that Rogues are really deserving of such hate just cause we got Cheapshot, kidneyshot, blind, vanish , and stealth? Also your opinions on the WOTLK Mace spec no longer stunning and just giving 6% crit damage despite that the stun on mace Currently had a diminishing return after first 1-2 mace stuns ?
Some people in here are so bad, calling the rogue class OP…i’ve seen so many people call rogues OP, coming from hm, a druid, the most overpowered pvp class there is in BC, a warlock, about as OP, seeing as how 30% of 2’s are lock druid, and with wotlk changes and talents, rogues are gonna be underpowered, 5 out of 10 classes are going have 50% snare duration, which is going to cause rogues to be shiving and using their global cd’s constantly just to stay on their target, and melee has it harder as it is due to the game’s latency, but of course blizzard doesn’t see that, just like they don’t see 90% of other things wrong with this game, *cough* druids, frost mages. For all you warlocks calling rogues OP are so ridiculous, every class has an anti class, ROGUES are yours, get over it, warriors eat us rogues just like we eat you except they have a bigger appetite aka we die faster. In 3.0 you will rape everything, UA, instant HoT, AND SL? wtf is blizzard thinking…come 3.0 rogues will be nothing compared so other classes.
OMFG so many walls of text…L2PUNCTUATE!!!!
Btw, alot of the infomation is now wrong from this post. Many of these things mentioned have been revised since this posting. gg have fun
Your a noob Deven, Seriously. Get Master of deception, locks “puppy will not see you, I’ve never lost to a lock as SS-hemo spec with swords. Mage, use garrote instead of Cheap shot (it silences) then shadowstep to them when they do blink, use mind numbing and criplling poisons. Cos out of Frost nova.
Hunters, Get The improved sap talent (whatever its called) sap outside of flare, wait on flare to end, stunlock him away from trap, If hes beast wait until after his pet stun and shadowstep back to him, stay on top of him use bleeds if hes gonna use beastial wrath.
I would say more, but you get the picture, You simply don’t know how to play noobz…
Ways to kill a rogue for each class
Locks: Stfu everyone should already know this..have your butt-buddy puppy out and fear us to hell, while casting shadowbolt for 3-5k dmg a pop, 2-4 hits and were dead..dont even count in the dots..
Druids: Feral: Sit in one spot, repeatedly click tab, repeatedly use your stun, it’s better than Cheapshot will ever be. After stunning, just eat us alive and dot us, rinse and repeat if we use vanish.
Balance: Have the skill, i forget the name, that has a chance to proc entangling roots when we hit you, and take 2 steps forward, turn around, MOONFIRE SPAM!
Resto: You’re one of the best healing classes in WoW, just annoy us until we get bored and run away, cast in the random moonfire to drop our armor. WE CANT HEAL.
Warrior: Only way we can kill you is A) We’re extremely pro and way better geared B) We’re comb spec so you rarely hit us, and we attack at around .6 atk speed(Can be done, so shutup)
C) We spam garrote and other bleed effects and run in circles while evasioning and rinse and repeat the bleed effects until you’re dead.
Shammies: Frostshock, windfury, if we manage to kill you just use reincarnation.
Heal spec: You’re a healer with high defense, shut the hell up and kill us already.
Caster spec: frostshock, lightning bolt, ZOMG 3 HITS WE DIED? GGNORM
Pallies: Rogues are op? HAH! You can’t get hurt for about 14 seconds, you have a 5 second stun, you have 13k+ hp, you have amazingly high AP, and if you’re a shockadin..YOURE A SHOCKADIN, 2 HIT US ALREADY!
Priest: Holy, well….you’ve got 2.5k+ healing ..add in your 1 second casts and instant heals, we cant hurt you. You can fear us away and smite us to death. If you’re shadow, we already lose 15% dmg to you, if youve got resil, we’re doing around oh say… 70% normal dmg, and any smart Spriest has instant heal on his action bar just incase he gets low.
Hunter: I play a hunter. Never lost to a rogue in 2 and a half years, unless he uses WAY better gear.Wanna know how, fine.
If BM spec(Beast master for the lamen) use your pets stun, beastial wrath, you now do 10% more damage, and your pet does as well. Your pet should do a considerably nice amount of damage, while you kite us, dot us with your poison shots, and arcane us to death. drop a freeze trap to get away.
MM spec(Marksman): Aimed shot, you do 1/2 out hp in one shot. concussive shot, followed by a steady shot, and we’re OUTTA THERE!
Survival: Snake trap, kite us to death, we’re dead in a few seconds due to massive snake damage.
Mage: Fire| Just spam fireblast and blink away. Hopefully you’re PoM spec, cus its the only way Fire rapes IMO..(In my opinion = IMO ). Presence of mind followed by Pyroblast. We’re dead if we don’t use cloak of shadows. If we do? Blink away and repeat firebolt and fireblast.
Ice: You’re a fucking frostie mage! You do 4k dmg, slow us, freeze us in place, and become involnerable for 10 seconds! Shutup and spam frostbolt! Oh and icelance does 500 dmg if you’re smart with it, freeze us in place, cast 2 frostbolts, and spam icelance. We’re dead.
Arcane: I’ve come to hate arcane mages. Spam Arcane Blast, it does a shit load of dmg, casts fast as fuck as well. You should have a ton of +int gear, so dont worry about the manacost.
Darkknights: You’re like a warlock and a warrior combined. Impressive hp, armour, attack power, and dots. Nothing can stop you. use level 1 gear and we still die! (EXAGERATION, DONT QQ AND BASH ME)
AND FOR EVERYONE THAT SAYS IM A NOOB OR SOME SHIT, IVE TESTED EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THESE ON NORMAL SERVERS, AND ON PRIVATE SERVERS. USING S4, S3, S2, S1, T6, T5, T4. IT DOESNT MATTER.
Wow, the total lack of understanding of the new buffs for the rogue is rediculous. People were actually saying spell casters have a chance! First of all no one even took a look at gorrote? yes the damage isn’t as good as a crit with ambush, but 4 secs of silence, you think that might help. Stealth behind a caster, hit premidition to get 2 dots, garrote will give you 4 and silence the caster, hit hem to get the 5th dot, kidneyshot to stun, shadowstep behind target, shadowdance and ambush ambush ambush, this by the time the caster has a clue he’s in a puddle of blood on the ground going WTF? mix in some poisons like mind numming or wounding poison for healers and theres no chance. Even warriors suck against rogues, use the same abilities except garrote is useless, just add another ambush, which will slow the target and lower the attack speed. The only class that has stood a chance against my sublelty rogue is a palidan. And yes 1v1 rogues are pretty much stacked, and beyond crowd control which has been majorly nurfed, they will pretty much only be good to take out 1 or maybe 2 essential casters like priests in group pvp before they are waisted. In my opinion thats the downfall of rogues, yes they have a shit load of dps against a single opponent, but anymore than that and they are screwed and have to vanish to get away. I still love the rogue and will continue to use ambush and shadowdance no matter what everyone says until blizzard decides to nurf it like the nurf everything else that makes a class fun.
I don’t fully agree with the post. Anyone who says there are only 1 spec or 2 specs for pvp doesn’t fully understand the class. I am constantly testing/switching specs and I find success in a great number of them. You just need to adjust the play style.
if you play a rogue and lose to any class atm you suck ass.