Beginning To PvP
Posted on August 26th, 2008 by Lawbringer under General Tips
I’ve spent the vast majority of my WoW experience doing PvE. To be completely honest, I’ve never really liked PvP. For those of you who are Blizz fans, it all started in D2. I was a huge Diablo fan, but PvP just escaped me. I had a whole pile of 90’s and did maybe a billion solo hell Baal runs, so I knew what I was doing - I just didn’t enjoy all the crud that comes with PvP.
It takes a certain mentality to really enjoy killing people. Mobs are one thing, fighting another human being is quite another. Maybe I’m just not the ruthless type. Although you would think if you can learn how to do one really well, then why would the other be tough? Well, I finally decided that it was a huge hole in my game and it had to be fixed. Oh, and it was making Gavin mad that I sucked at it.
So for those of you who are pros at PvP this may be a little boring and you might want to move on to another post. But we all had to start somewhere with everything and you might actually find a bit of humor here if you can cast your mind back to when you were just beginning your PvP experience. Plus, you might actually be able to help those people who are just starting out by adding comments on the beginner bits instead of doing what most good PvPer’s do - laugh at people.
That one thing - the punk factor, kept me out of PvP. I simply hate being laughed at, spit on, and all of the other ego trip idiot things people do when they win. More than likely they are losers who never won at anything else in their lives so they feel some uncontrollable urge to rub it in when they actually succeed at something.
As a result, PvP can be pretty intimidating at first. So these observations may be just the boost you need to get started if you’ve been putting it off and “concentrating” on your raiding or leveling. Well don’t wait any longer, you’ve got to just jump into the fray and take your lumps as a rookie.
Right off the bat, understand that you’re going to have to grow a little thicker skin to be able to swallow PvP, especially at first. The jerk factor doesn’t stop with the guys on the other side. You’re going to be the victim of a fair amount of ridicule from members of your own teams as well. Which is a real shame. No one actually knows how to play team sports any more.
So you’re really going into Battlegrounds and world raids with a bunch of individuals doing their own thing. Because of that, sometimes you’re going to lose even though you could have won, and all those individuals are going to blame each other, and you, and your mom, and your sister and anyone, in fact, but themselves. If they are so smart, why aren’t they organizing pre-mades? Oh well, you just have to live with it.
You’re also going to feel virtually naked your first few Battlegrounds. So much of the success quotient in PvP is in your gear. And you’re not going to have the right kind of gear until you’ve done your share of PvP, so it’s a circular referrence. How do you get a LOT better in PvP situations? Get good PvP gear. How do you get good PvP gear? Play a lot of PvP. So you can see you have to go through the rookie blues for a while until you can start collecting some honor gear.
That was the whole point for me in starting my PvP grind - to grab at least the full current set of gear before the WotLK debut. And I figured it sure wouldn’t hurt me to get a few hundred battlegrounds under my belt to try to get up to speed on the whole concept. So I hopped in about 50 games last week as a trial by fire.
Despite getting whacked a good number of times by players who simply had more skill and a lot better gear, it’s really not too bad after about the 20th game. It took me about 5 games to even have an idea what was happening, and then another 5 to figure out what maybe I should be doing besides just tagging along and killing what I could and trying not to just be dumb. So after 10 games I felt better.
Then I could really try to participate and help do my part to win the matches. Easier said than done. My first 20 games on my hunter went really badly because I am simply the wrong spec and forgot to take that into account before I went in.
My Shadow Priest did a whole lot better, even though he just hit 70 and has virtually nothing but crafted gear from tailoring. I made sure to do a little more research and respec to a PvP friendly build as well. So I did the full holiday weekend of EOTS games, about 20 in WSG, and a few AB just to check it out. The encouraging part? If you’re pretty good at PvE, you can figure out the PvP stuff faster than it looks like those first few games.
You learn pretty quickly which classes are going to give you fits, and you can either avoid them or just know you’re probably about to take a beating. But that also means that there are some classes you will normally best if you play your cards right and you’ll know how to spot them and hunt them down to take them right out of the fight.
The biggest difference between PvE and PvP is really just the speed of the game. PvP is really a case of Fast and Furious. But after a while you will feel yourself getting a LOT quicker with not only your spells and skills, but just moving around the battle fields. As you process information faster and learn to spot certain things it makes a big difference in how well you will do.
But the real point I wanted to make here (after a little rambling) was that maybe the one thing that will give you some sense of pride as you begin the PvP gear grind is to be a team player. As I mentioned before, you’re going to be playing with a lot of punks, but that doesn’t excuse you from doing the right thing. You can often be more valuable to the entire battle not just by whacking people but by doing other, more subtle, things that will not show up in the end-of-battle list of kills and damage/healing done.
Just a “for instance,” as a shadow priest. Since the SP is not a big killer with a gob of life I can’t really mount a 1 man assault on a captured tower and wait for reinforcements. But I did find that I could slow down about 4 enemy players chasing a flag carrier. In that way, just the two of us could do something faster than if we had grouped up five guys to try to take and control the mid field. When the flag gets picked up, there will often be a big chase scene, and most of the time no one will stop to gank the little SP running along with the group. So I had the freedom to dot, flay and get some blackouts in on several enemy players, basically letting my flag guy get out scot free.
Now, realize that once the flag got out of reach I was dead meat. But that’s sometimes the whole point of being a team player. Go ahead and mount that 2 man assault you know is going to fail if it will buy your team time to grab some other tower. Run away from situations when you’re going to die anyway and try to get that one druid to chase you to give your group an advantage. Look for any way you can to create annoyances for the other team and give your team the best shot at winning - even if it means not scoring any personal points in the game. Take one for the team in other words. Sometimes you will help more by taking a death and occupying a few enemy toons until reinforcements arrive than if you waited for help first. While you are waiting they might have time to get a zerg up for one of your towers.
And more than anything, just realize that you’re going to win some, and you’re certainly going to lose some. You can’t let it make you mad or yell at the other folks in the group. You’re going to get into those games that are pre-mades for the other faction and you’ll be toast from the start. When the other team is REALLY a team, you’re going to have a hard time winning as a PUG cluster.
But maybe the best example of how satisfying it can be was an epic comeback I was privileged to be a part of in one EOTS round. When the bubble dropped, there were only 6 of us in the game. It was a rout from the very beginning. At one point, we were down 1,200 to 150. Then the team numbers rounded out and at full strength, we charged back for the win by just 50 points. It was one of the most satisfying victories I’ve ever had playing WoW. Just as good as the first instance Boss drop and definitely as good as that first Gruul or Vashj kill.
Now I can begin to see why people do a lot of PvP. It can be really fun. Sure, there is a grind involved - it wouldn’t be fun if it wasn’t difficult in a lot of ways. So I look forward to having my first full set of PvP gear here in the next few weeks, and seeing just how different it is on the other side of the pile of purples than it was when I started. I plan on keeping the old gear as a reference point and running a few games with the old gear and then the full set of new gear just to see how big a difference it makes with the same skill set. Should be a fascinating journey as well.
So, all you folks that have been lolly-gagging around doing all PvE, it’s time to hop into some battlegrounds and get your feet seriously wet. Or, you can follow me straight off into the deep end. I guarantee, it won’t be long before you will start to Dominate!
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hi i am a noob at pvp tried my druid as a tank but got ganked a lot so i went in in my resto spec just healed all the time and throughout a cyclone or 2 to save someone. best was when my mate’s rogue got a warrior to half health then died so i cycloned the warrior res’d the rogue then we kicked his as s. And the the reason i didn’t heal my mate first was he was out of range at the time. my gear is not great but very funny running away from 2-4 allie’s and healing at the same time lol i can see them screaming at their screens just die dam u come on just die
Hey Lawbringer,
You talked about gear and how it makes a difference. From my experience, gear does not have the same impact on all classes. I’ve PvP’d as a rogue for a while now and I’ve found that even after hitting 70, still in my leveling blues and greens, I could dominate. Hell, I’ve even beaten a full-BT warglaives rogue in 1v1 with my blues.
Gear does make a difference, but reaction times, knowing your class AND the other classes and fast-thinking are all much stronger tools.
Well there are certainly classes in warcraft that are heavily biased on how well they do based on their gear. Warrior is a prime example of this, caster’s have a bit easier time in PvP than melee classes due, due to the range they have compared to melee. All in all it all comes down to experiance and knowing how to play your class, like knowing your weaknesses such as your counter-class (every class has a counter class) and how to handle them.
How do you find out what your counter class is? I would really like to know, because I have an arcane/fire mage and a BM/Sur Hunter that I play bg’s with. I also have a Disc/Holy Priest that I play on occasion in the bg’s.
Dont forget that a PVP spec’d rogue will almost ALWAYS beat a PVE spec’d one… there is a such a major difference between PVP and PVE spec’s with certain classes, and i could definatly see a full blues PVP spec’d rogue beating a rogue with double warglaives, considering hes in BT gear he would most likely be PVE spec.
Try beat a 5/5 brutal PVP spec’d rogue in full blues, yes its possible but you would have to have extreme skill..
Well when i first started pvping i was only level 39 or so, bad time to start really.. full of twinks so you dont stand a chance
But at 70, In WSG, when your first starting out try and stick to the middle of the field, get a feel for your character in pvp by staying in groups and fighting… once you have a feel and know your opposition and what classes you can take and cant take go towards the flag
Arathi Basin… usually the group leader will tell you what groups going to where, so check your group number and if the leader doesnt tell you where to go, /bg and ask where they would like you to go
Alterac Valley… When you first start out, you wont know where to go, so just stick with the entire group that isnt going to protect your base, you will get a feel where the bosses are that are first taken down and the layout of the opponents base, now if you dont feel you like going over to the other factions base, try and protect your own base and the GY’s that surround it
Eye Of The Storm… Now if your not Horde i wouldn’t bother doing this, i myself am Alliance, a 70 gnome warlock, and i know, from A LOT of defeats that alliance DO NOT know what they are doing in this BG, Horde just totally obliterate alliance on my server but, usually the BG leader again, will give you directions where to go, one of the two bases you first come across or straight rush the flag, but generally, playing both horde and alliance in EOTS its just easier to run to the first base on your right and then for the flag.. move onto the other factions base and work on it from there
Hope this has helped
HA
the punk factor, ull get used to that bro.
im actually a punk to certain people, CERTAIN people
like the 4 noobs who come in gank parties to kill me and end up all 4 dieing
i spam laugh at people like that
or the one time when i was doing 3s and it ended up being a straight up one vs one fight, me (a pve/season 1 shaman) vs a warlock (full season 3 with titles and everything).
he spammed laugh at me the entire time before we started fighting and during the fight
i smoked his ass.
look whos laughing now.
Lol S1, nice welfare gear.
Now thats the kind of thing that pisses me off… when people say welfare gear… its gear. Its gear that people worked hard to get. Do you even know what Welfare is? If you say that theres no way that you really do. I also hate when people yell at non geared people in BGs… acting like they were BORN in full S3. Also just a note… people dont seem to understand that the reason people beat up full BT warglaive rogues is because thats raid gear not pvp gear… its not set up for fighting other people… for some classes its not set up to even get hit really.
As a general rule, Skill > Gear.
For example, in a rogue duel, whoever gains control and keeps it will most likely win. That is how I beat a Full-BT + Warglaives Rogue with my Blues.
PVP is deffinitely a different experience than PVE. For PVE, most battles are on your own terms. You know the strength of your enemies, how many of them there are, and that you should have some sort of escape plan if things go wrong. In PVP, people are going to be sneaking up on you and attacking you out of the blue if you aren’t observant. Another factor to think about is that everyone in that battleground WANTS to kill you, a “killing intent” that can be intimidating thing if you aren’t used to it.
Its important to learn when you are a good match up to a class and when its better to just run. For example, a Priest is rarely a good match up to a Hunter, on the other hand, you could be supporting your teamate with healing and shields to kill the hunter. The game is much more about who has best healing or honor kills. As a team player you should do what is most benefitial to your team. If you aren’t a good carrier yourself, then support someone else. (Priests are some of the best at this role) If everyone runs off to another flag in AB, be the better man and defend so some lv 30 rogue doesnt come ninja it.
I do player vs player with all my characters because it leads me to master all of my skills as well as earn me good gear at all tiers of the game. Even if PVP isnt your main interest in the game, you can at least use it as a learning experience, for understanding your class as well as others.
Not sure if this is helpful to anyone but the noobs but… When you are level 69 ensure you have the honor req’s to slide into yours welfare epix as soon as you ding. This will give you ~200 reil and the bonuses. From there the next step is to fill in the other slots (rings, neck, bracers belt etc) with honor. The honor items are S3 quality and you will end up using the areana points you drag in to replace your welfares. From the 3 almost 4 toons i have gotten to 70 this is the fastest way to gear a fresh 70 for PvP and have a viable jump point at 70.
you dont even need to have the honour to purchase enoguh pvp gear to get yous tarted.
just get to honoured with cenarion expedition, shatar, lower city, thrallmar/HH and keepers of time, and you can purchase a fairly decent starting pvp set for around 70g.
this set will keep you going until you can farm up enoguh honor for s2 and will even keep u alive in low end arena so u can start getting points for s3/4
My 70 resto-shaman found his niche in PvP… running interference. Last night, a druid and I hit the balcony over the flag room in WSG last night an looked down on 5 others guarding the flag. I whispered to the druid to wait a minute, jumped down and ran for the exit, dragging the entire defense with me while dropping Grounding and Earthbind totems, sucking up hits with Earth Shield, Frost Shocking the worst offenders. Yeah, I died, but the defense was too far from their flag to stop the druid from grabbing it and running out the other exit. Of course, I had to endure a battleground comment from the druid about the “noob shaman pwnd himself” without him understanding what I was doing. I still managed to rez and meet him mid-field and Earth Shield him while spamming 1200k+ lesser heals on him to get him across the field. And yeah, I got killed again, because that druid wasn’t dying before me and the enemy realized it. Once again “Noob shaman pwnd himself again, WTF?” Sometimes you have to know when to sacrifice yourself for the team win and when not to go for the glory. Sure helps when it’s appreciated though. Death in PvP is temporary, stupidity is permanent.
so a few things to add. when you’re starting pvp get your rep gear. it’s like 300g total, put green gems in every slot, and low level enchants. sounds lame when you’re 70 running around with low level gems and enchants, but you’ll be replacing it all so fast it’s just a step up from other gear you have.
a second thing i’d like to offer up is that if you are not skilled at pvp it’s all about experience. get a group, any group, of five players together and queue battlegrounds together. don’t worry about your specs or gearing, that can come after the honor grind. the key is that you stick together and learn to play with a wide variety of classes.
the least understood thing about pvp is that big damage is secondary. the most valuable thing in pvp is support. few players ever realize the highest levels of success because so few grasp that a rogue’s job isn’t strictly damage dealing (by way of example). the best rogues don’t run around like warriors in leather, they peel enemy players off of the healers, cause enemy healers to focus on themselves, and generally wreck havoc on the field. the best warriors don’t toe to toe with one guy for an entire encounter, they make sure everyone’s got an ms up, and then focus down the guy who’s the most wrecked.
this is all a bit longwinded, but what i’m trying to impress is that whatever your class or spec, you have a niche. fill it. there will always be players who outgear/outskill you, find them, learn from them, and support them. learn the basic strategy for each battleground and follow it religiously. those are the keys to pvp life.
I wasn’t sure if I wanted to PVP even though I am on a PVP server, but when my son joined I wanted to be where he was, you know to level together and stuff. When I was a lower level he had us go into an arena and we waited and waited to get once we were in, it ended faster then it took us to get in. I said that was a lot of fun and never did another one. I didnt go into a bg untill I was in my 60’s, because I didn’t want the same thing to happen, but sometimes you have to fall off the horse to get back on, so I went in. I was the worst player there was ever in a bg and I know that because I was told how bad I am not only by the enemy, but also by my guys. I think you are right there are people out there who are in a dead end job, get pooped on by everyone and this is where they are on top and this is how they handle it. I do not think it is the best way to handle someone who does not know what to do or might just be new at it, but I guess this is thier way to handle things and that is a shame. I was in a bg one time with the best group ever, we comunicated and everyone was there to win not get down on those who are there to learn or really have not done this before. when we worked together we won so fast. I wish you could pick the group you want to do a bg with, because I have some I would rather not be in one with, just because thier hearts are filled with anger, you can just see it in thier words. Some people get mad at those who are like that I dont I feel sorry for them. There life has to be so bad they have to come into a game and down others. I would not trade mine for thiers ever. I will say that after playing in bg’s for awhile now I have been getting better and can hold my own, but after beening hassled for so long I give advise to those who are new at it. I try to help them in bg’s and outside bg’s. Everyone needs a little help sometimes and even those who down others were a noob once. So next time you get down on someone for something they might of did wrong in a bg, just remember that you might need them next time and if you informed them how to do it right they just might save your life….
I so agree with you on this! I don’t pvp for exactly that reason; plus the fact that I hate that it seems the Horde has an advantage over the Alliance in bg’s. I know Blizzard says they don’t, but I’ve seen Horde toons do things on their toons that I cannot do on my toon of the same class. Its probably a racial trait or something; which imo, gives the Horde the advantage in pvp.
I have found that a lot of the ones that are really, really rude–are young kids. So my advice is if you are willing to put up with ppl giving up, being rude, not giving all they can to the team—go for it. If not, do your thing pve’ing and leave the bg’s to the ones that can take it.
i rly don’t pvp that much i do it just to get what would be a pve upgrade which for my hunter is very little my warlock quite a bit. im more of a buissness man but i would have to say the hardest part about pvp is jsut the fact u can’t master one thing u must know a little of everything unlike pve a hunter can’t jsut steady shot auto shot and win he msut know how to control his pet his abilities and all his spells warlocks should be fearing and doting everyone and draining life i rly don’t do much arena/bg im more of the world pvp type of person more strategy and cunning and its more fun
Also u can support the team vocaly, use some encouragement, and if u ever get pwned by a class u know u can kill… dont worry about it… just brush it off and keep the pain coming.
Also don’t be shy to heal someone or afraid of dieing, a little help could go a long way… like lets say suicide yourself and distract players at a flag lets say in AB so players at another flag can have a hope of little reinforcemnts… use a fear effect warrios… when u r in the midst of battle so it sends people flying around and taking the majority of damage/heals out of the figh
Something ive noticed too, WATCH PVP VIDEOS of your class, tought me some very useful manuvers and combos =)
The videos arent hard to find, google, youtube and learn ^^
For those of you starting out with PvP, be aware that PvP in a BG and arena PvP are two different beasts. First and foremost, opposing players will tend to be much more well geared and more skilled in arena, so you should postpone arena (if you want to be successful) until you get some solid understanding of how to PvP your character, best PvP spec, etc. and until you get your “welfare epics”. Some people would argue that its best to run arena every week regardless of performance because you will accrue points regardless of whether you win matches or not, and you can always reform a new team with a fresh rating once you’ve run your rating into the ground. If you’ve got a buddy or four, this might not be such a bad idea, but be forewarned that the play will be significantly stepped up in the arena, and don’t get discouraged when you get beaten over and over again. More often than not, your role will be more pigeon-holed in arena than it would be in a BG (i.e. you will be there to perform a specific task according to your class, and not performing this role will most likely lead to a loss; if you aren’t well geared, you’ll probably lose anyway). In addition, I feel that the learning curve is far less steep for BGs than for arena, and you will find it less frustrating as you begin your PvP career. IMHO, its best to get geared up in the BGs and learn to PvP your class effectively before (seriously) heading over to the arena, unless your plan is to accrue points thru just losing your ten matches and reform your team when your rating tanks too low. This strategy can be costly if you don’t have proper financial backing, but there are various articles here that can help with that
Anyway, onto my next and most important point for those starting out in PvP: check out the wowwiki.com articles for each of the four battlegrounds before jumping in for the first time. Some of the BGs can be a bit disorienting if you haven’t a clue as to the object for winning, AV especially. Not only does wowwiki explain the objective of the BGs, but it offers up viable strategies for winning as well. If you form a premade and get everyone clued in to some of these strategies, you can reap success with relative ease.
As stated in one of the previous comments, the key to success in BGs is often support, i.e. TEAMWORK. If you can set aside your ego to take one for the team, this can often be enough to put you over the edge. Ideally you want to win as fast as possible in the BGs, as this will yield honor and marks much faster than when games are long and drawn out (i.e. a turtle). When you learn to work as part of a team, you will see that your teamwork will net you a faster victory most of the time, hence why premades are so popular. I highly recommend utilizing ventrilo or a similar chat program to help coordinate in BGs, and you will find that it is essential for success in Arena; you just can’t communicate fast enough through typing in arena, where a split second is everything. Also be forewarned that arena is somewhat unbalanced, in that some classes naturally fare better than others in arena (hunters are difficult to be successful with in arena, and more often than not, are resigned to a role of mana draining the healer; in contrast, resto druids are extremely difficult to best in arena due to their versatility and ability to shift out of most forms of CC). This can be frustrating, and hopefully will be adressed in the expansion. Good luck, and happy hunting!
TLDR
Hmmm. My advice for grinding honor for gear, do BGs with friends, you increase your chane of winning via better communication and you simply will have a better time, even if its just you and 1 friend working together, its way better than being alone. My advice for learning to pvp would be to mess around in BGs and also check warcraftmovies.com for movies relevent to your class. I have never had a 70 rogue or mage but playing one in pvp is easy for me simply do to how much i observe the tactics through pvp vids.
I totally agree everyone sux at pvp the first time around though igrew up on a pvp server when i first joined wow cuz of my friends, this was preBC and everything, but yea totally agree, its 15% gear 35% skill and 50% experience, you cant hope to hop into a BG and just pwn ass unless the rest of your group is playin on the same page. you gotta run BGs when you can run em in between instances when you find the grind to the next lvl boring jus find some time to do it, each game vastly improves wat you know, you may not realize it at first but after a few more you realize your picking up on somethings you hadn’t before, you get in the Zone sometimes where you can tell what spell a mage is gonna use or you realize “oh wait that flag is not unguarded theres gotta be atleast 2 rogues stealthed near it”. I too play a hunter (lvl 70 orc hunter on firetree) everyone knows me for some BGs for my signature unorthodox pet a giant albino crab called “Pinchy”. But the clothies know im good for defense as my pet and I are speced to hold aggro, if i see a clothy under attack pinchy runs up intimidates and then starts poundin away with his claws and .6 attack speed! and the use of stings properly is of utmost next to pet control and tanking for me, wyvren sting helps me even the odds sometimes when were overwhelmed, chain freezing healers or tanks…ok im ranting now too. Basically like you said be an asset to your team not a honor farmer who sits on his ass. Go Team!
Thanks Lawbringer, a very enjoyable article as always, keep up the great work.
Here is a tip for hunters that can do AV if you are getting pwned by 6 differnt people. You will notice there are alot of small cliffs around, just jump off 1 and hope you have the HP to survive the fall. Then do Feign death. This makes them think yr dead because when u use it they automatically unselect you. Stay there for a moment or two then run.
Oohh…epic tactics…hehe
This is a good article that describes almost everyone’s beginning pvp experience. However it misses one of the most important aspects of helping your team win: Communication. Two major advantages of pre-mades are: 1) everyone plays (no afk’s) - so often they will outnumber their opponents in terms people who actually try, and 2) Communication – the more players know what is going on, the more they know what they need to do to win. There are dozens of winning strategies for each of the BGs, some are better than others (but that’s a different article/debate), but all of them can win. However it takes communication if all the players are to follow these strategies effectively. Don’t be afraid to call out 1 incoming player, even if you are sure you can take him. Your teammates will be less frustrated if they go to help you and you didn’t need it than if it turns out losing the flag because you were too arrogant to admit you might need help.
Sam: I have done that before; in EOS I called out “Incoming to Mage Tower”—out of 3 times, I got help twice. It depends I think on who the ppl are in the groups you are in. I have never been in a pre-made, so I can’t comment on that except to say you are probably right.
I have no qualms calling out because its usually 2-3 Horde coming (I am Alliance–obviously:)), but sometimes even when I only see one coming, there’s usually a rogue that I can’t see–I hate rogues! lol ( I have one by the way:P)
hey all
OK first of all i am a huge pvper, but at the same time i pve, i personally think gear has nothing to do with it, i think skill and reaction is everything.
2nd, ofcourse horde are stronger than alliance at pvp, look at the racials, look at UD, WOTF, fear break, tauren have warstomp and 5% inc hp, BE arcane torrent is a silience, troll have beserker, inc attack speed or cast speed depending on your class, orc have 5% stun resist and blood fury to inc attack power, come on it is obvious that horde have a clear advantage, having said that i am very impressed with my UD lock (narthix laughing skull)
as for the dude that pwned the duel warglaives, yeah right, please dont BS, how much hp did he have? 5%? even then our rogues in my guild would woop you silly even if they had 5%, before you broke the stun lock you would be dead lolololol!
anyway fellas, AV is more pve imo, it has lost its original style, now it is a race to who can kill drek/galv the fastest. eots, is simple, control towers, not the centre, as far as AB is concerned split up, and dont leave nodes unprotected, with wsg, have 3 on defence, 5 in the middle to intercept and slow down the ally advance and have 2 go fetch the flag, personally i prefer sl/sl lock and resto druid to carry or rogue and druid. very simple fellas, all basic mechanics. if you suck at pvp chances are you always will. you might be better with some practise but you wont be god like also team setup has got alot ot do with it. when you BG get a friend who is a healer or if you are a healer get a dps friend, personally i have a 70 UD lock and a 70 orc warrior.
as far as counter class is concerned, i would like to see what happens, my lock is geared to the teeth, and i dont loose 1v1 against anything. hehe as im sure most locks will agree with me.
anyways keep the articles coming.
narthix 70 UD lock, laughing skull
There has been some good commentary on PvP, including some of the most off-putting elements (ie, morons that /laugh or call you a noob for playing to the team). However, this is not why I stopped PvPing. Yes, the speed of the game is increased, and you need faster reaction times. Yes, you get ganked by certain classes (warriors and rogues always owned my warlock). But all of those things are to be expected and you get used to them.
What really made me quit was some of the stupid aspects of the game that are highlighted in PvP. Sure latency is a bitch, but in PvP it kills and Blizzard having no Australian servers makes it something I can’t avoid. So I’m behind the 8 ball right from the start.
The most annoying thing is spell pushback. As far as I’m concerned, either spell pushback should be dropped from the game OR an equivalent should be added to melee. It always annoyed me that a rogue could do some quick little jabs to “break my concentration” pushing back my cast time BUT when I set his head on FIRE it doesn’t faze him a bit. WTF??
Actually, that wasn’t the most annoying part. The most annoying part was that those melee classes would walk right THROUGH you to get behind. They’d keep doing this so that you had to continually turn to face them. Not only is this utter bs, but it causes spells to fizzle because the target is “not in line of sight”. What? My character can’t keep track of a fella walking around (through) him? Why the hell isn’t there an auto-track? Ah, I hear you say “you should keep track of him yourself”. I tried. According to my screen I was successful. I’d still get the “not in line of sight” problem though. So what was the problem? Latency. So not only does being in Australia slow general reaction time, but the melee classes take advantage of it in extremous. Stupid. Even without an auto-tracking option the spell should just wait to be cast, not fizzle. You’d then get the spell off when they walked THROUGH you yet again. Or you could cancel it yourself. This horrible situation would have to be rectified before I’d ever step into the PvP ring again.
Lastly, a minor annoyance is stealth. Stealth is supposed to represent someone taking advantage of shadows and perceptual quirks to sneak up on someone. So why can they do it right in front of me while out in the open!? It’s not a magical ability. It’s supposed to be ninja-like. Yet they just vanish right in front of me. Mages invisibility spell is nowhere near as powerful as stealth, and yet it’s an actual spell which makes it so that the enemy CANNOT see you! Worse, with a locks detect invis spell I can see the mage, but not the rogue. Stealth is way overpowered compared to what it is meant to represent. I know, I know, rogues and druid cats need that ability for balance, yadda, yadda, yadda. I don’t really care. Balance could be achieved in other ways. I know, I know, “you’re talking about realism in game where X happens!?” Look, to me it is about suspension of disbelief. If Paladins walked around with 2-handed posies of flowers, there’d be a little bit of disbelief about the effectiveness of that as a weapon. Likewise if they wore sponge pudding for armour.
Of course, in PvE there’re still rogues, both players and enemies, and there’s still latency and there’s still spell pushback. It’s just that in PvP these aspects are all highlighted to the nth degree and used against you, sometimes synergistically. All in all, PvP sucks.
dude your a lock, stop complaining, i have played with 700 latency before currently i play with 76, but still even then as a warlock you shouldnt be getting wrecked by a warrior or a rogue for that matter, it is commen knowledge that warlocks wreck rogues and warriors, i will pay any rogue or warrior that can beat my warlock in my pvp gear. when i spec sl/sl (soul link/siphon life) first of all a warlock shouldnt be casting, play games with your opponent, dot him up dont use agony use exhuastion and kite the noobie all day, run circles around him and dont cast spells, just drain tank him till the end. dude really warlocks are the most dominate pvp class in the game, every1 will tell you that.
i understand you struggle with latency but there are ways around to it, but ultimately you are handicapped by it. sorry man =(
Narthix 70 UD lock laughing skull
Well I’m not one of the locks that everyone thinks is so uber (though I cop the flak as if I am). I’m destro. I like destro. I don’t want to respec affliction. Maybe I could mitigate some of the stupidness of spell pushback if I decided to go affliction and just use instants all day long. I don’t want to though, and I don’t see why I should be handicapped because I choose to cast (surely destro is enough of a handicap?). For that matter, just because a lock CAN mitigate this problem it doesn’t mean that it isn’t a problem in general. I’m sure other casters have the same problem. Oh, and btw, warriors own locks, they’re locks “weak class”. Rogues are damn good against them too. As for kiting … you tried kiting a rogue? If you’re trying to tell me you can then, respectfully, you’re full of shit. Also, warrior charge makes that idea a bit of a non-starter for them too.
However, all that is a little beside the point. I probably wasn’t too clear in my initial post. When I did PvP, I did OK at it. Not spectacular (for reasons already noted), but OK. Most BG losses were due to poor group cohesion rather than any terrible imbalance in gear/skill/classes. What I was trying to get at (and perhaps failing) was that I found the experience terribly frustrating. Even with a win it was horrible, because those mechanics did not line up with common sense. I don’t care if every single class becomes perfectly balanced, if there’s still an option for “tiptoe around and they can’t see you” then it’s still going to be the greatest of crapness. Hell, if they simply justified the ability, such as an innate magical ability granted as trade due to selling their souls to demons or whatnot (come on, you know there isn’t a Rogue that still has their original soul). Then it would at least be slightly more believable. If Blizzard ever decided to fix the spell pushback and no collision problems (or auto-track!) then PvP would be worth a shot (I’d use my powers of denial to avoid thinking of rogue stealth as a “shhh, I’m hunting wabbits” kind of thing).
So…I’m just wondering…how many of you play priests and say that gear doesn’t matter? I mean…sure we get some talents that can increase our stamina…sure we get Pain Supression, sure we get improved(POS) bubble and some other crap…but without gear we’re screwed most of the time(except when the warrior in a mix of greens and blues decides to try to attack the S1/rep shoulder/S3 chest disc priest….)
Anyways…I realize that Blizzard added Resilience to stop people from coming in with T6 and just going pewpewlasereyesnails on people, however…when you’re just starting out in arena and just happen to go up a newly formed team in full S3 and you’ve got rep blues? F A I L
What would really be awesome is that when you zone into an arena you get a borrowed set of welfare gear that’s either 2-3 seasons behind what the current is…this would make arena a bit more balanced in the sense that skill *is* what actually killed you and not just because you were outgeared by [insert class] that can’t even focus fire but can just outlast you…
But hey, that’s my perspective and as of right now I’m a mostly PvE priest…so chyeah. Oh and sigoroth…completely agree with you on no collision detection…and how about this? I destroy people’s mind with Mind Blast and they just keep on running through me…I set them on fire and they just go “pokepoke” and I go QQ -_-
Want to say great topic, nothing brings the wolfs out better then a good story about ass kicking…
I hated to PVP when I was new now that I know my Mage better I like it. Yes I get schooled by others and thats ok, but I also do the same. I think it is great practice and it helps make you better. You really have to act different in PVP then you do in PVE. I have seen my son play and his friend comes over to play as well and with 3 computers set up you get to see, not only your screen you get to see 2 others and how these guys act as well. I am still what you call a 70 noob, but these guys are good, both rogues and they go in packs. If one goes somewhere the other follows and they are a good team. I think they are a good team, because they not only know there main, but they also know each others. Dont lose focus on what this story is about it is about PVP’ing. If you are in a PVP’ing server you will PVP, if you dont fight they will kill you, but I think it really does help you understand your character better. I mean I do, I hate walking in the barrens and an Allie coming up and just killing me, there will be a time where you will fight back and it isn’t about killing another player, because you are not you are understanding how to use yours better. I think if you do not like being spit on, then you better learn your character… Actions speak louder then words. They might spit on you, but they are the ones walking back from the graveyard. My son gets pissed when he gets owned by someone else and it makes me laugh. I love this game and will play for as long as I continue to play this game and yes I get mad when I dont win, but it still is only a game. you get to log off and go to sleep and wake up the next day to play again. I personally think PVP is an essential part of this game it helps people understand thier character better. Remember if one thing doesnt work on a certain class USE SOMETHING DIFFERENT till you get it right. I see it in my sons face and his friends to when they win it makes them feel cool, but not so when they are losing. Who likes to go out and lose…No one, so practice, practice in PVP and get better, HELL maybe you will be spitting on people and pissing them off…lol
Thanks Law,
I deffinatley can relate. Enjoyed the post.
I can relate to Sigoroth and his latency problem. Try playing off a satellite connection sometime. Normal latency for me is around 1400-2000 sometimes going up to 3-5k. Arena under these conditions is very interesting. You walk out everything freezes for about 5 sec. and then your dead. Gear for me has made more of a difference than anything else I’ve done. Have macros, keypads and all the other stuff does not help when it takes you 2-5 seconds to get an instant cast off.
For a long time at 70 i did only pve, and switched to pvp. I had full pve epics, but still, not really good for pvp. I grinded it out, and at this point, im a resilience capped warlock working hard in arneas to get a rating useful enough for something. But enough credentials,
The absolutely most important stat while building up your pvp set, is RESILIENCE! Do not sacrifice this stat for anything else. The second most important is stam. Therefore, even if you are in pve gear or w/e, if you’re trying to deticate to pvp, re gem to resil and stam, it can be excellently helpful.
Second, get friends in your guild, and do arenas! 5v5 recommended. It’s ok practice, but more importantly, you’ll get some points each week. If you have a bad composition, or just simply bad gear, you will do terrible. But it doesnt matter, Dont be frustrated if you have a 1200 rating, you’re still getting points, And those points WILL add up to that brutal gear that you go gaga about when you see other amazing pvpers in.
Third, try to HAVE FUN in pvp. If your doing the bg grind, and hate it, and constantly complain that you have no gear so you cant do it, then pvp probably isnt for you. Even when i’ve had bad gear on new characters and started pvping, i thought it was wonderfully fun. Whether i always died, never got any kills, w/e, i still had fun. Honestly, if you dont like it, then why do it?
If you want to start pvp never choose a warrior, they suck without gear, i was stood in an enemy tower on my resto druid with t4/ s1 arena feral gear while the warrior in lvl65-70 blues kept wacking me with his mortal strike etc and it really was like a flea bite a small rejuv was all i need to out heal his damage, and the reason i use a mix of feral and healing gear is because the arena 1 feral gear comes with healing and high armor which is useful for when i am getting chased by an arena 3 geared warrior, it allows me to take a blow or two before managing to get off a stun or use feral charge to fly across the screen to the other enemy and out of his range.
I am a noob to PVP I only have 4,000 kills and a few pieces of merciless armor at this point. I have yet to even enter an arena match. I did pull off 178 kills in AV the other night with only 8 deaths and we lost LOL. So I guess what I am trying to say is that even in PVP battle grounds it is not always just about the killing. You have to play the BG wisely as well as getting loads of kills.
I play a level 70 Dranie BM hunter and I usually own Druids, some Rogues, some warriors. Opponents I hate: locks, preists, and shaman. Shaman I can usually beat but it is a job to do it for some reason. A lock or a preist speced right will rip me a new one. So I am learning what to fight and what to avoid.