Stack Sizes at the AH
Posted on August 20th, 2008 by Gavin under Auction House, Gold Building, World of WarcraftOne of the many ways to maximize your profits at the AH is carefully regulating your stack sizes. Although it can be tempting to put everything up in maximum lots to save a little time, or to split everything into singles, you could be robbing yourself of some serious cash in the long run. So I’m going to give you some pointers to use that will really help you know exactly what to do that should cover you in almost any situation, and really boost your gold-making.
There are three classes of things we’re dealing with here. First are those items that simply stack into lots of 5, 10 or 20. Next come items that convert, such as motes (from stacks of 10) and essences (from stacks of 3). And finally are those oddball items that stack up to 250.
For the most part you will hardly ever want to post in maximum stack sizes for several reasons. The biggest one is that there are still a lot of people who do not use Auctioneer. I know it’s hard to believe, but because of this, there are a ton of folks playing this game that only see the final price and not the price per unit. Smaller stacks are going to look cheaper than larger ones to them. It’s just human nature to want to spend less (even if you are really spending more in the long run).
You can see per item prices in the WoW tooltip, (see posts by Ren and Trevor) but that doesn’t mean everybody will.
Don’t believe me? Go to the grocery store and see how many things are being sold in smaller and smaller units in real life. If multi-billion dollar companies use this little trick, then it’s safe to say it’s a good bet in WoW. You can buy the ginormous bag of chips for 5 bucks, but people still buy gobs of the snack packs for $3.50 - even though the total weight of the the chips in the snack pack bags is less than 25% as much as is in the big bag.
Use this on things like cloth, especially wool. If you split into stacks of 5, you can actually raise your price a touch over everyone else and still sell a ton of whatever it is you are selling. People will see the 20 stacks of wool selling for 5g 50s (a price of 27s 50c each) and will often opt for your five stack at 1g 50s (a price of 30s each). This works best when there are is a lot of price variation among the competition. Without Auctioneer, it makes it very hard to tell what is really cheaper if the prices are all over the map.
Another area that this really comes in handy is on ore. You also need to learn this now before WotLK when herbs go through the roof. By this time you know that if you pay close attention to the AADV stats on metals, you can often make more money selling ore for prospecting than you can smelting the stuff and selling it that way.
Prospecting uses a LOT of ore. Although most high end Jewelcrafters are not burning through the ore like they were at the beginning of the year, it is still a lucrative part of my weekly AH routine. It’s not going to be any different with WotLK.
You see, Inscription has a skill called milling that is exactly like prospecting. So far, it doesn’t seem that Inscription is going to use a lot of herbs directly, but it will be using even MORE herbs in the long run because of the milling process. Milling uses five of any herb and turns it into a Pomace for the various Inscription recipes. There are different Pomaces made from different level herbs, so herbs of all types will be in high demand, regardless of how rare they are, unlike alchemy which requires specific herbs.
We’ll do an article on Inscription when we know more. Lawbringer is working on an Inscription guide, but since there are only about 10 recipes functioning now in the Beta, he hasn’t been able to test past about level 125. But it is obvious from our initial look at Inscription that herbs are going to be a huge market.
We already told you to buy up all the herbs you can find of all levels. Initial testing in inscription took us about 10 stacks of level 5 and 10 herbs just to get through the first few recipes. So those stacks of peacebloom that go for next to nothing now will be worth well over 1g or more when WotLK goes live. Expect even more profit increases from the higher level stuff.
Here’s how to capitalize on this with stack sizes. Since Milling requires 5 herbs, don’t post your lots in stacks of five, force them to buy more. Since it’s going to take a LOT of herbs for the milling process, they need stacks of 20 and probably multiple stacks, but don’t give it to them that way. Then as the power levelers pass you by, there will be stragglers that do only need five just to round out a skill point or two, and you can take advantage of both types of folks by splitting into stacks of 3 or 4.
Stacks of 4 requires them to buy at least 5 stacks from you. Since milling takes 5, and only 5 will do, a stack of four is not enough. 8 is not enough, neither is 12, and 16 is still a mess. The only way they can get a multiple of 5 for 4 milling runs is to buy 5 stacks of 4 for 20 herbs. The other size, a 3 stack, also requires 5 purchases to get to a multiple of 5 at 15, but may be too frustrating for the dude who needs 200 herbs and doesn’t want to hit buyout 67 times.
This example of how to take advantage of stack sizes in this one area should open you mind to a lot of other areas at the AH you can do the exact same thing to really maximize you profits. Just by splitting to smaller stacks, and raising your unit price a bit, you can still APPEAR to have lower prices, and yet price your stuff over everyone else.
Remember, people have the attention span of gnats. They want to get in, get what they need and get out fast. Post your stack items consistently in reasonable stacks and you can take advantage of their rush to get what they need and get on with whatever else it is they would rather be doing.
Next, there are those monster stack items. I have found that weird stack sizes do best with these. If you have 100 green power crystals, post a stack of 29, one of 41, and the last one at 24. Just vary it up a lot, and make the unit price for each stack a little different. If they need a whole bunch of them, they will be forced to buy your higher priced stack to go with the other two.
Finally, comes the ones I always harp on here at DYS - the enchanting mats. These have the greatest stack separation potential for making even more gold above what you already do with DE. Please tell me you buy things with the help of AADV for DE! Don’t make me lecture you again on this. OK, off my soapbox now - on with the show.
For enchanting mats as well as the mote conversions there are no real hard and fast rules, but I’ll give you the general things to look for. With essences, the conversion rate is 3 to 1. One greater splits to 3 lesser, 3 lesser to 1 greater. MOST, but not all, of the time, you should be selling lessers. This is one place you’ll have to check the conversion suggestion in the AADV tooltip to make sure.
When selling Greaters, split to a stack of 2. Lessers go in a stack of 4. We sell 2 greaters because not many recipes require an even number of greaters to create, and we don’t want to sell just one. If they only need one, they have to buy two to get it from me. As for the lessers, if they need greaters, they have to buy three sets of four to convert them all cleanly, and again, I always want them to buy more than they need. If they only needed one greater and bought my 4 lessers to make it, they ended up having to buy one more lesser than they needed.
This also applies to motes. I normally sell motes and hardly ever convert to primals. This is because if I am selling primals I use a 2 stack (make them buy more than one), but since many primals are pretty steeply priced, it’s tough to buff your unit price on those since it’s going to look a lot more expensive than a single. Remember, we want them to THINK they are getting a better price, and never KNOW they just got hammered. For motes, use a stack of 6. Again, a 6 stack requires 5 to convert cleanly to primals (5 stacks of 6 is 30 for 3 primals).
Finally, also apply the stack of 2 to any large shards. There’s just no helping this one. remember, make them buy more from you. A few things we didn’t mention so far are dusts, which I will normally put in a stack of 5. That sounds odd, since I’ve been preaching other oddball stack sizes and 5 seems like a nice round number. This is because I did a survey of the different enchants, and very few enchants use a multiple of five, so the 5 stack maximizes over-purchases the vast majority of the time.
You can see, there are a LOT of little things you can do to boost your sales and gold potential at the AH, and we’re putting every single one of them in our gold guide. But you’re going to have to wait for that one. Until then, split your stacks right and Dominate the auction house on your server!
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Nice tip, Gavin. I just got back into WoW, so I think I’ll be re-reading all of your handy tips. I’ve been subscribed from the start.
Keep it up man, you’re doing everyone good.
Aarons last blog post..It’s Go Time.
Very good article, I have bought items in odd stacks like that and I am saying wtf can’t anybody put these up in a more efficient manner, but I need them and I buy anyways. Oh and FYI the last time I checked 5 stacks of 6 does not equal 40
Maybe you could mix in a match class or two between wow sessions 
What’s a match class?
Wow… I guess that’s what I get for playing games instead of going to class…
Took me forever to figure out what you were talking about for match class lol. My bad on not catching the ‘math’ error in the post. Perhaps an editing lesson for both of us?
Ok so I follow and agree with most of the assertions however, with large shards (Large Prismatic Shards in particular) the two stack seems wrong to me. My reasoning for not selling these shards in stacks of 2 is that Void Crystals being sold individually will always both be and appear cheaper, because they can be shattered. So, does one post Large Prismatic Shards in lots of 3 (which is a multiple many recipes call for), or as singles for slightly more? The void will then follow the axiom, appearing more expensive, though the single shard really is.
That’s the very reason you would split to a stack of 2 instead of 3. Since many recipes call for a stack of 3, an alternate stack size makes them buy four instead of 3.
I don’t really know about this “strategy”. For starters, you don’t need any addon to see price per unit. It comes with the standard user interface. Not only can I (or anyone) see the “real” price of a sold item, but just the very idea of someone splitting a stack and selling them separately seems suspicious to me. You can already tell that they want to cheat you and it’s inconvenient for someone grinding a profession to buy odd stack sizes.
I believe there is more to the game than taking advantage of idiots and noobs.
Ren, while I respect your opinion, I wholeheartedly disagree.
In any exchange, whether in WoW or in real life, two people have to AGREE in order for commerce to take place. No one can put something on the AH and FORCE you to buy it without your permission. No one can put Purple Lotus on the AH, but after you buy, send you Peacebloom.
If you buy something on the AH, you had to agree to the price that was offered. If you don’t have time to price compare or don’t want to price compare, that’s a conscious decision you made before purchasing. If you don’t like the price, then you don’t buy, it’s as simple as that.
Go into any gas station in America, and you’ll see 12-packs of 12oz cans of Coke being sold for around $3. That’s 144oz of Coke for $3. You’ll also see individual 20oz bottles being sold for $1.40.
The cans of Coke are 2 cents per oz, while the bottles are 7 cents per oz… yet amazingly the 20oz bottles sell extremely well.
Are Coke and Pepsi “cheating” you, or “taking advantage of noobs”? I think not. Some people (probably yourself included) simply DON’T CARE that the cans are a better deal. They want a Coke, they want it now, they buy a bottle and move on with their lives.
The lack of sales is how business people gauge whether their pricing is too high. If people didn’t continue to buy when we split stacks like this, then we wouldn’t use it. The fact is, they still buy - this strategy works, and it works extremely well.
People come here for tips on how to make more gold. If you personally don’t want to use this strategy, then don’t. But don’t come here and claim that it’s “cheating people” or “taking advantage of noobs”
The name of this site is DOMINATE Your Server… not Have Tea Together in the Utopian Realm of WoW Without Ruffling Any Feathers.
Dominate (dom·i·nate):
verb
1. To control, govern, or rule by superior authority or power:
2. To exert a supreme, guiding influence on or over.
3. To enjoy a commanding, controlling position in.
4. To have or exert strong authority or mastery.
I’ve always wondered why people buy my smaller stacked mats for a higher unit price, now when I get gold I just laugh and call the WoWconemy a noob.
This has been my method for well over a year, and it always brings me tons of gold. Although even without auctioneer, players now can simply scroll over the picture in the ah and get the price per unit. I noticed this when I installed wow on my new system and forgot to download add-ons. So *EDIT*
Great info. This will help me get rid of all the arcane dust I have…selling them one at a time sucks.
I am trying to follow your advice on the herbalizm thing but on Shadowmoon, and prolly every other realm, the sheer volume of herbs on sale at any one time is staggering. I know I won’t be able to buy out all of the herbs so what I have taken to doing is setting a buy amount. If a stack of herbs goes below X price, I buy it…Auctioneer is great for this as it will allow you to track recent prices.
Thanks for all the GREAT tips.
I agree with Ren—with a kicker. To each his own. I play the game for fun and social interaction with my WoW and rl friends. I don’t want to cheat anyone and try to keep my prices reasonable. ie-the price I would be willing to pay for something. I may be shorting myself compared to others; at least I don’t feel like I’ve cheated anyone.
If you are in the game to lie, cheat, steal your way to gobs of gold, go for it. I think people are a little smarter than some give them credit for. When I am looking for something in particular, like mats or potions, I look at the price of the singles as well as the stacks and do the math myself.
That’s the spirit I try to embody. I buy from the market too so I don’t want to be ruled by the ridiculous demands of others. Sell for what you would buy, it’s like the golden rule of the AH. Even if I had the money to pay for it, I wouldn’t buy an item that is being charged much more than its worth. Worst comes to worst, you could play the game and get the items yourself.
Whoa there everyone. This is NOT about cheating anyone. The article doesn’t say “split your stacks and sell them for insane markups.” It says be smart about how you sell and you can raise your unit price a little.
This is about applying the very best techniques to Dominate in an area of the game. You are more than welcome to cheat yourself by not maximizing your potential profit. In many cases, smaller stacks are welcome by many people who don’t need to drop a pile of gold on a 20 stack. The rest of it is just being a smart retailer and not being a noob seller.
No great company in RL makes a profit for their shareholders and pays their employees well by using antiquated and idealistic pricing models. There is a state of the art in every area of life and it is not wise to just go with the flow.
I think you would find that Gavin and I are two of the most generous folks to play with if you took the time to do so. We also provide a huge service to the servers we play on because we auction thousands of items people want because we take the time to collect those items and keep up the supply side of the equation. We make a profit doing so, but I sure don’t ever get hate mail in game.
I gave a guy a big pile of gold the other day because he was a noob and didn’t know what he was really doing. He was level 70 and only had 6 gold so I helped him out and directed him here as well to get more information about how to keep that from happening to him again. I would not have been able to do that if I hadn’t gotten a HUGE pile of gold - more than I can reasonably spend.
Don’t call character into question and label him a noob, liar, cheat and thief because he uses good pricing strategies. It is highly offensive to have you call Gavin’s moral character into question when the entire reason for the post was to help people who visit this site learn to use the very best strategies for making gold, which will help them out in the long run. So who’s being naughty and who is nice?
I am impressed with the generosity in time that Gavin and Lawbringer spend on us readers of this website. Thanks !
-me
Its not a personal attack on anyone’s character, it’s just something that irritates me when I do need to buy mats on the AH. To make something appear like something else and use that to your advantage is deception. There are many things that are possible in the game, such as ninja loots, but we don’t do them.
For example, I happened to be in the barrens one day when someone said they were selling a Deviate Fish Delight recipe for 2g. I knew this was a good deal so I bought it off of them. It would have been a great idea economically speaking but evidently, the person did not understand the worth of the item. Sure they could have checked the price, but they didn’t, they were a noob and I gave the recipe back to them and told them what they could sell it for. The moral of the story, and most certainly not to brag about humanitarian deeds, is that even if the world and market is doggy dog, doesn’t mean we can’t help each other out.
Edit–I do LOVE your site and have implemented a lot of the suggestions, shortcuts, and advice–as well as told my friends where I get the info.
if you don’t like it get off DOMINATE your server dominate imply s you will being able to lie cheat and steal wowtards out of there money not playing fair and nice this is a capitalistic society we live in the one with the most gold thrives the one with the least dies. and btw another hint always ah on an alt less people will hate you when you do this
While I appreciate your support, we never provide any means of cheating, nor do we condone lying or stealing EVER.
The problem Ren has is that he disagrees with the ethics of this strategy. However, for whatever reason, he chose to use the word “cheating”. In my book, cheating is hacking the client to run faster or have more health or higher stats or something like that. Something OUTSIDE of the rules.
Using social engineering and unique pricing strategies to result in higher profits is hardly anywhere near “cheating”.
Let’s do some examples:
One way to make gold in WoW is to tell people to mail you lockboxes, and when they do, you unlock them but send them back worse items than you actually got out of the boxes. This would be stealing, and we’ve never done an article on that strategy.
Another way would be to advertise that you can do a transmute for someone, and when they hand you the mats, you log out. This would be stealing, and we do not condone or talk about that strategy either.
Yet another way is to offer to run people through instances on your high level, and after they pay you up front, ditch them. Totally unethical and we don’t discuss it here.
Using a hack to dupe items is another way to make gold. But, because it’s cheating, we don’t discuss it here. Ever.
So, when we say DOMINATE your server, we DO NOT mean through stealing, lying, cheating or hacking. We mean applying real-world economic and marketing strategies to an in-game situation. Proven strategies that capitalists have been using for centuries…. because they work.
If I’m not mistaken (and i ussually am mistaken) but don’t stacks of things that are cheaper per unit price go closer to the top anyways? or it may be as a whole b/o price, im not exactly sure but thats just what i thought. if that is the case then someone with half a brain can understand what to buy.
also i agree with the above post - people on wow generally aren’t complete idiots. People - like me without auctioneer generally just look at the P.P.U before buying, because we don’t want to spend more.
Also - if people dont bother looking at the P.P.U, they are stupid and deserve to be scammed out of their gold.
Gavin,
I enjoy your strategies, but rarely take the time to incorporate them. I am one of those guys that generate enough gold to get by doing quests, raids, farming, etc. I enjoy picking up a different pet on my hunter and leveling him up on trash, then sell the netherweave, nether silk, etc.
I used to leave a toon at the AH and ship him all the greens to DE, then sell the results. I found there is no AH cut on Arcane Dust, Planar Essence, etc. unless it sells.
There is no “AH cut” or deposit on any item that doesn’t have a vendor price.
I very much agree that the general populus can be easily moved into buying something purely based on it’s price. Psychological pricing is widely used to play on human nature e.g 99p or 99c appears to be better value then £1 or $1.
I personally always check the price per item tab when scanning for items I need, whether they be primals, cloth or any old thing! But I know far too many people that don’t, so it would be pure logic to list smaller stacks just so your item appears earlier in the AH results screen. That way you needn’t sacrifice the gold that you earned by farming/aquiring the items you are auctioning. While that may seem unfair it is simple business sense, only do something if you can see a point to doing it and it is “profitable”.
Many people say they aren’t in WoW for the gold, but lets be honest having a nice healthy stack of gold is always nice!
Hmm, sorry, I stopped paying attention right before the 14th paragraph, hope I didn’t miss anything : P
For those that believe it to be immoral think on this: A Seller can charge as much as they desire as long as the buyer is willing to pay it. A great example of this was back when Primal Nether was BoP and Karazhan had just been unlocked. As a blacksmith I charged 350-500g per Primal Nether to craft some highly sought epic items. Started high and worked down unwilling to drop below 350g. People bitched and said I was ripping them off because Tailors would only charge 100g. But guess what people PAID and even referred ppl.
It is by no means “cheating” since you have broken no rules. Some ppl would just rather have something then and there and not shop around well others will find that better price. To be successful you must outstrip your competition so you come out on top. Would some of you rather they made all the sales and you none cause you thought you were taking advantage of someone?!
an interesting article. i wish there was a class that people had to take on auctioning before they could post. some other basic tips on how to use the auction house might improve the economy across the servers. some things i would recommend would be to 1) check the current pricing on items before you post. quite frequently i find items grossly under-priced that i then buyout and repost for just under the lowest seller is posting for only to have the auction sell before i log off my bank. 2)whether posting for 1c or 50g under the lowest seller, your item still comes up first and will be the first bought. there is no reason at all to undercut by ridiculous amounts that more often than not just throw the whole market out of whack for weeks. 3) understand the basics of supply and demand. by posting 100 stacks of anything all at once will not only screw everyone who posted before you but also pretty much waste half you deposits because that kind of increase in supply will all but guarantee half the items will not sell. you also risk being undercut by three or four people who will fulfill the server’s demand and then you’ve wasted all your deposits… and 4) think about what people need before you post stacks. this one really doesn’t hurt anyone but the seller but the chance of someone buying a stack of 20 living rubies is pretty slim. sell them individually over a few weeks time or advertise on trade chat. just think of how the ah would be if only people didn’t post like greedy impatient retards…
Sometimes I intentionally post many more of an item than I know will sell simply to screw people up that play the economics of the AH. I’ll also post items for as much as half their regular sell price.
I don’t mind making gold in the game one bit but when I see cartels form to intentionally drive the price of ore or some other item I and a group of friends work to disrupt those cartels. We’ve been known to go as far as reporting the cartels for manipulation of the economy.
what mod is AADV
nice tips!
I never thought of that, weird numbers of stacks really look confusing and no one will get a calculator each time they go to AH.
I’m just glad I got Auctioneer.
Hey Gavin
first up great articles, i dont really play wow that often anymore (im so ashamed) but i still follow your articles to still laern more hopefully that i do start to play again.
i love this stratergy and also have used it many times, i wanted to ask that not alot of smart AH workers use B/O, alot of the time the wil search and BID on items that are at a medium length of time to go. so when we are splitting up our stacks, how do we work the BID and B/O? Bid set at what we need to get and B/O at what we would liek to get? myself i use the auctioneer tool to bid on items according to my bank that will make me a 80% profit, wether it is only 50s or 100g, auctioneer can be used so effectively. cuts farming time aswell.
thank you so much for all your support, check me out, my char is the way he is thanks to you =)
Narthix, 70 lock, laughing skull US.
AADV = Auctioneer Advance
thanks so much for all your tips and tricks and info on wotlk. i have a suggestion for a artical and didnt know where to put it. can you do a article on macros if you already did a good one please tell me which one. i like using one botton for several tasks. thanks again
ren,
I think you would find Gavin alot higher on the list of moral and ethical people than you would find any CEO of any corporation in this country. I find it offensive that you come to him for advise then question the advise by calling him a cheat or a liar. I think you may have been a victim of some good market strategy in the past and this hit home for you.
I do wonder now however if your employing any of the strats he recommends, as they all look to take advantage of a market situation set within the guidlines Blizz has created. I personnally only employ these market strats when I fall below 20k G. Some of them are time consuming and I play to KILL KILL KILL. But you have to have some G in the bank to maximize KILL KILL KILL time.
Gavin,
THANKS A TON, you have helped me maximize my gold making potential, which helps me have more time to KILL KILL KILL. Keep up the great work. As a follower of your strats i have been able to much more enjoy my game time and play.
P.S. Greatest gold making venture to date bought 400ish primal shadow at about 3-6g each prior to the nerf in drop. (I had people lining up to sell me there Primal Shadow when I blasted out in trade chat that i would pay 6g each).
WHY would i do that, I read the patch notes the day they posted, not day of patch. I held them in my bank for several months, to allow the idiot noobs to sell there stuff off cheap. Tons of which I continued to buy and repost to the AH as the price climbed daily. I have trickled them back into the market over time, never for less than 30g each and somtimes up to 50g. 400×30=12000 at a minimum.
And were did I learn the strat to read patch notes, when testing went active????? Well i’ll just say thanks again, see ya at the mail box!
hey all
sorry gave i was just reading some of your older articles, that i have in my mail, yes i have a folder dedicated to your email’s and i have kept all of them, as they are really handy when lvling toons, seeing that this is your most recent artice you have sent to me, i will post this here.
you said that you would like to see us chars who have sunwell geared toons in your article about WOTLK gear, well here i am
horde for life BTW!!!
Narthix, 70 Lock, Laughing skull PVP US realm
sorry i switch gear regularly and dunno if i am in my arena gear or pve gear
another thing, why do people always choose a hunter for there speed test? as i have done a speed test with a BM hunter and a affliction lock, i know every1 goes with demonology i prefer affliction, dots fear drain tank another, etc etc i can kill about 4 mobs at once, life tap and drain tank to full hp again.. i have just about zero downtime when i power lvld a affliction lock. i find the power lvling ability of locks far superior to hunters, am i wrong in saying this? could you do an article on hunter vs lock as far as power lvling is concerned? i would love to here what you ahve to say.
also ould i have a look at your main on armoury? what is his/her name?
thanks alot
Narthix
I hate sounding like a noob, but i know I’ve missed something here… What’s AADV and where can I get it?
AADV is Auctioneer Advanced, and you can download it at:
http://auctioneeraddon.com/
Wow i think i should check my emails more often i missed out on a huge arguement/ chat that i would of loved to be in. Back to topic though making the most out of low income is what we do best at low lvls and we learn this as well in the RL since as you said coke puts out the 6pack and you get more for the money, but what people buy the bottles for are the Convenience of it, were paying the little extra for the fact that the bottles can be reclosed after the initial opening, and yes i agree with the idea of putting things in smaller stacks to maximize total sale. For me whenever i got wool i would just hold on to it till I made a stack of 20 and then put it up for AH, and wondering why others were able to sell them with od numbered stacks or smaller stacks and take up an entire page in AH for what should be a full stack or 2. I realized what was going on and this tip just confirmed it for me thankyou!
P.S. you shouldnt worry about the math problem class cant prepare you for a brain fart in the middle of typing out Faqs and Tips for us.
stop hating gavin and lawbringer they’re great guys even sharing this with you!