Talent Specs And You
Posted on April 17th, 2008 by Gavin under General Tips, Low LevelTalent specializations can be really confusing; especially to the relatively new player. Even for those of us who have been around a while, there doesn’t seem to be any right answer for “what’s the best build for _____?” So we’re going to talk about talents in general terms and then we’ll draw some conclusions.
Every character has three talent tabs. Each one of these tabs has around 20-25 buttons. Each of these buttons represents an active or passive skill for your character. You are given 1 point for every level starting at 2 points for level 10, for a total of 61 points to spend in these talent trees. Where you put those points will make a huge difference in how you should play your character. With virtually unlimited variations to choose from it can be really tough to choose how to spend your talent points. We’ll help shed a little light on that right now.
It all boils down to this: how do you like to play? That one factor should be the ultimate decision-maker for you when it comes to choosing your talent tree, as well as how you allocate the individual points. Do you prefer healing or fighting? Do you like crowd control or a ton of DPS? Ranged attacks or melee? Once you get to know your character and class, you’ll have a much better idea how it all fits together.
In my opinion there are really only two ways to go to get the very most out of any build. This may be a little controversial, but here goes. You should either go all-in on a single tree and super-specialize with 41+ points, or go 30/31 in two trees. It really depends on what the people you play with need you to contribute to regular instance runs, PVP battles, or raid groups. Let’s look at those two options.
In order to really have the best heals or be a fabulous tank, you simply must go at least to 41 points in those trees. If your guild needs an uber tank, you’re going to have to really go for it, or decide to let someone else play that role. For maximum healing, the 41st point is usually a “can’t live without skill.” Do a little looking on wowhead and Thottbot as well as a google search and see what build others are using in that tree. Alakhazam has a list at that shows the breakdowns of what its members use at http://wow.allakhazam.com/dyn/talfreq.html you can see from this list most druids (2.43%) use a 0/0/61 build for restoration. This just proves my point that in order to do one tree well, you’re going to spend nearly all of your points there. This list is terrific because it lets you look at what hundreds of other players are choosing.
Another great resource for looking at builds if you are not an expert already is the WoW Wikki site. On the Class page here: http://www.wowwiki.com/Class there is a window on the right side of the screen where you can get very detailed information and comments on how thousands of other people play that class, the builds they use, and which builds are better suited for PVE, PVP and raids.
Now that you’ve seen the first theory, let’s take a peek at another one that might make you even more valuable overall, primarily for DPS classes and builds. On this page: http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/guides.html?guide=472 someone was doing an analysis of hunter DPS builds, and the end result was fascinating. In almost every case the builds with a 30/31 allocation did the most damage. This happened because of talent synergies. While those who played Blizzard’s other blockbuster, Diablo 2 are familiar with the term, it’s not used directly in WoW, but that doesn’t keep it from happening.
On this page we see that a 0/21/30 build was almost identical in DPS to a 0/31/20 build (this is a very old post on Allakhazam before the expansion so bear with me). Blizzard does a great job of trying to balance their games so that players never overpower each other, and that no single build ever lasts if it thoroughly outshines all the others. This leads to parity and variety, so that all players become fairly equal, and players can play the same toon in a variety of styles depending on the situation.
So you might experiment with a 31/30 build. From my testing it always turns out that any two trees end up with talent synergies in the 20 point level, meaning they make each other stronger. The hard part about this build is choosing the 61st point. There will be one really great skill in all three trees you’ll have to choose from with that last point. It can be a really tough choice to make, because it will have a great effect on your play style.
Hunters, for example can go with BM/MM with the last point in either bestial wrath (big red kitty) or true shot aura. If he goes MM/Survival he’ll have to choose between true shot aura and Wyvern Sting, and for BM/Surv the choice will be bestial wrath or Wyvern. All three of those skills are useful; it will just depend on how that player wants to play. I’ve said before that very few hunters go survival tree, not even 1%. But I’ve also seen a survival hunter make all the difference in a high level run with great dps because his crit chance was around 29% with lethal shots, mortal shots and lightening reflexes. He would put on rapid fire and crit almost every 1.5 seconds to the tune of 1,400 to 1,800; it was insane. Plus he could chain trap like crazy, and put a mob to sleep before the fight ever began with wyvern sting. That means from one toon you got double the CC.
That’s what you get from a 30/31 build, versatility. You can do three or four things really well for your group and not be pigeonholed into just one thing. A 31/30 build is going to be primarily used for DPS builds, while a 41+ specialization may be more for healers and tanks. A good raid group needs both kinds: the super-specialized and the versatile. I think maybe I’ll do something really weird and go 30 beast mastery/31 survival just for kicks with my next hunter and see how it goes. Put a rogue to sleep for a bit and then let my cat go frenzy on them. No more stealth for you Mr. rogue, and enjoy the dots! Next, we’ll rant about instances.

















A well written post Gavin.
Personally, I don’t think all classes can/should super specialize or necessarily benefit the most from a 30/31 build. Take Palidins for example. You can’t invest in protection at all unless you plan on tanking so puting points into that tree is not an option for a retribution palidin. On the other hand there are a lot of skills in the retribution tree that arent worth anything so you can’t put all your points their either.
In the end to have balanced talents in any two trees just means you can do two things moderately well but not be really good at a single thing. For a Palidin, they need to have a 41/20 build so they can have a solid build and battle plan with their 41 points and compliment it with the remaining 20 points into another tree.
Nice post…. for Hunters….
Playing a Warlock, this doesnt really help, infact now that you mention it, i can’t really think of any class that would really need a 31/30 spec in any respective except hunters. I mean, a number of classes could get away with doing it, it just wouldn’t put out ‘end game’ dps. Warlocks, for example, want to be using a mainly demoonolodgy spec for leveling and into the really shit gear of kara, once a decent kara gear is reached head onto affliction then with ssc/tk gear go a 0/21/40 spec for the really high dps.
So yeah… let me know what everybody else thinks!
I dont think so Ren
A paladin may have to build 41/20 eccept for retrbution pally, there is a very good build that you can do.
It’s called a Recconing pally. Just build enough to get recconing in protection (That’s about 25 pts but usualy your gonna take blessing of sacntuary so it makes 26) and then put the rest on ret, maybe 5 pts on 10% str and intel
so it might look like this : 10/26/25 or 5/25/31.
And I agree that the rest is true
Moonyang : Cenarion Circle – Night elf Hunter.
Kaylaya : Cenarion Circle – Human priestess.
wats gavins character name….oh and btw im a retard….
not not allways true Rommoram. iv’e play both my warrior and rouge w/ a 30/31 build and they seem to work great well the warrior is ms spec fury is better off full 41 w/ rest but 3 in arms the 3 points left over in prot for the extra rage when changeing stances but a rouge more better off before BC is 30/0/31 or 31/0/30 but really only works for a dagger rouge for backstabbing its not the best spec but won many duels w/ it. but mutilate is indeed much better
I’ve deffinitely considered the combination of Reckoning and Retribution but there is a problem with that strategy. Ret based Palidins use two handed weapons. The Reckoing buff only lasts about 8 seconds to double your swings for the next for hits. However, two handers are so slow that they might be able to use two of the 4 double swing hits. Even with my prot pally (I have a lv 50 human prot and lv 53 BE ret) who uses a one handed sword and shield, does not always consume all her Reckoning “charges” before the buff is gone.
Another problem with speccing only partly in prot is that there are a lot of points that are wasted in terms of dealing more damage. For example, the first two talents are 5/5 for improved blocking (Ret palidins dont use shields!) or 5/5 for improved defensive aura (that sucks even for people who do use shields). You don’t use shields and if you are going into the Ret tree you should be using Sanctity aura for more damage.
@Rommoram: I’ve seen good builds for Warriors and Rogues that use a 30/31 build. I dont know if they can compete with pure bred specs though.
Nice article, it makes me re think my current spec im mostly BM with enough to get aimed shot in MM for pure dps reasons and i wanted the BM spec as i’m wholey concentrated on the survival of my pet. If I lose my pet I dont have the armor or stam to live long enough for me to do my job.
talents are just a matter of opinion and how you play, i have a lvl 49 warlock with all one spec and hes just as good as my priest that is a hybrid. Like gavin said there is no “best build”
Alright… now I have to really disagree here. This isn’t something you can just generalise about. Hunters and rogues can get away with hybrid builds, and 31/30/0 warriors tend to own in PvP but that’s it. I can’t think of any other classes that can hybridise that much and remain viable at endgame.
That’s three out of nine classes.
I think the best advice you gave here was to check wowwiki. Wowwiki is your friend as a newbie player. As patches come and content changes, players edit WoWwiki and builds to reflect the changes that players need to make to adapt. That includes the builds page.
Oh and Ren and Cédric, the reckoning/retribution paladin build is dead. It died when the endgame talents got changed to give retadins threat reduction. It died further when retadins were given an improved Crusader Strike that made the talent indispensable.
Anyway that’s my two copper. Other than that one thing, I like the article.
Umm, OP please don’t post when you don’t know what your talking about.. Any rogue that specs a 31/30 is an idiot. Viable rogue specs are usually 20/41/0 15/41/5 41/x/x (can’t remmeber the Mutil build off hand) for pve. For pvp you can get away with a hybrid spec but rogues tend to spec 20/0/41. Some people will spec a hybrid to get sword spec/hemo. Mutilate 41/0/20 is used sometimes in pvp, although ShS is much more common.